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The Legacy Fund hasn't been discussed very much either, and how much the annual contributions will be. From what I understand the fund will help support the building for the life of the velodrome (40+ years).

Wait what exactly is a velodrome? I skimmed through that big post :$


Sorry can someone help me out ?

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Nooooooo, I dont give a sh*t about what you say about me

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Velodrome

Basically an arena with a circular banked track for competitive bicycle races. Beyond the Pan-Ams it would host major national (and probably international?) events since as I understand it this would be the best cycling facility in the country.

+1

By the way this thread has played out it seems Zeeshan is a Councillor who looks at a situation, assesses the risks and makes a decision. Malboeuf is a Councilor who has a position and finds any little piece of information to support his claim so subjective arguments are de rigueur. That is why he seems to be off his rocker.

Example, from the "Velodrome really?" thread;
I call this "faith-based governing" since it requires a lot less work. In other words, even if the numbers come back in favour of the Velodrome, Rick will not "believe" them. I would respect Rick's "faith" if he backed it up with "science". In other words, if Rick found out that of the last 10 public buildings Milton built 9 went over budget by a margin of 40% and their operating budgets added x% to municipal taxes then I would have a reason to "believe".

Based on this thread I'm guessing the other Councillor who voted with Rick M. is Martin Capper. Rick M. and Martin C., by the way I am all for being skeptical of this project but base it on objective criteria. The business case should provide quantitative values for risk and their corresponding probabilities. Every project has risks. What is acceptable to you? If you say 0% probability of risk, then that is still faith-based governing.

Ward 2 Councillor Greg Nelson was the other member of the town council that sided with Rick M. I think there were only 2 votes that were not in favour.

KGC

I am not a Councillor just a taxpayer like yourself!

Actually I find not a helluva lot of difference between Zeeshan's position and my own! I agree the due diligence has to be done.

You pose an interesting question about risk. If I were a Councillor my capacity for risk would certainly be lower than what it was as a business leader but it definitely would not be zero. Equally I don't think my "gut" or "faith" as you put it would play as big a role either.

Martin

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Martin Capper

HVRA member

www.cappercares.ca
www.MartinCapper.com

I call this fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

Rick is saying that he has seen governments come up with numbers that show XX project will be pie in the sky, a bargain, and anyone would be insane not to proceed. Then once committed, it turns into a two headed monster that sucks money from anything in sight.

I don't blame him one bit for seeing that this is almost certain to be a disaster in the making. 9 out of 10 government projects seem to go that way, so why would this be any different? Numbers are easy to manipulate, and businesses are pros at manipulating politicians who have no personal stakes in the consequences of their actions.

I also don't blame the other Councillors for waiting to see the numbers before making a decision. In a way, it seems like everyone is making a reasonable choice in this.

That sounds cool! Milton should get it, we need more interesting things to do here


-Rohit

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Nooooooo, I dont give a sh*t about what you say about me

The final business plan is being drafted as we speak and will be presented to council on the 23rd of January, one day before the deadline. It will be available a few days before the meeting which will give councillors an opportunity to digest it. I am one of those very encouraged by this project. As Ive stated before this is an opportunity to kick start business development in Milton by the proposed education village site.

One of the things we need to do as council is to foster a positive economic environment for jobs to be created and this signals to the business community that we're open for business. The other key to this growth will be the Derry Green business park as well.

I along with the rest of the council are anxious to review the business plan in the coming weeks.

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Mike Cluett
Local/Regional Councillor
Wards 1,6,7 & 8

Website | Email mike@mikecluett.ca | Cell (647) 888-9032 | Facebook Page | | Twitter @Mike_Cluett

The velodrome is much more than just a cycling facility. We are looking at ensuring the facility is multi purpose to provide more options for Milton residents, Laurier University students etc to use long after the games are gone.

If it was just a cycling facility on its own and the promise of more services being available, I would be just as skeptical about its promise. Its not a done deal just yet, we have to see the final business plan but Im encouraged by the level of interest in the private sector to be involved in this project. If it was just govt money, again I wouldnt be as enthusiastic.

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Mike Cluett
Local/Regional Councillor
Wards 1,6,7 & 8

Website | Email mike@mikecluett.ca | Cell (647) 888-9032 | Facebook Page | | Twitter @Mike_Cluett

The velodrome is much more than just a cycling facility. We are looking at ensuring the facility is multi purpose to provide more options for Milton residents, Laurier University students etc to use long after the games are gone.

If it was just a cycling facility on its own and the promise of more services being available, I would be just as skeptical about its promise. Its not a done deal just yet, we have to see the final business plan but Im encouraged by the level of interest in the private sector to be involved in this project. If it was just govt money, again I wouldnt be as enthusiastic.

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Mike Cluett
Local/Regional Councillor
Wards 1,6,7 & 8

Website | Email mike@mikecluett.ca | Cell (647) 888-9032 | Facebook Page | | Twitter @Mike_Cluett

I was actually trying to accurately respond to the original request for a question. There are those that think its an outright stupid idea, and shouldn't give it any attention and then there is the rest. I'm trying to gauge how many people think it should be considered vs who thinks it a terrible idea. I could have added multiple options like 'great idea, further consideration, don't touch it', but really I want to combine 1 and 2 people into one camp and just know what is the split vs look into it and kill it.

Malboeuf generally wants to kill anything that costs money (this is an over generalization I know), but so far he is vehemently against 2 things I think we should fund, public transit and velodromes

Can you explain how a Velodrome is supposed to signal that Milton is open for business? Or how not building one would suggest we're closed for business?

I'm skeptical hat any business would give a rats ass it there was an indoor cycling facility near by. I would think that competitive taxes, geographic location, infrastructure, and a skilled population would be the main drivers for any business deciding where to locate itself.

It means that we will be starting to service the area...moving closer to getting the Milton Education Village started which will promote more businesses to look at that area as a location for their business...retail, shopping, etc. Its not just the fact we will have a velodrome there but that business development is happening.

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Mike Cluett
Local/Regional Councillor
Wards 1,6,7 & 8

Website | Email mike@mikecluett.ca | Cell (647) 888-9032 | Facebook Page | | Twitter @Mike_Cluett

The magic word is assuming as of yet we have none of the funding gaurantees from the private sector, that supporters of this project keep mentionning. The only commitment I am confident of receiving is the $2 million from Mattamy for the naming rights, the balance is simply pledges or offers of support in fund raising. The province has not announced officially if and when we will get the Laurier Campus. If this is to go ahead we must commit to the Pan-Am Games committee by Jan. 24th. Once that is done, we are on the hook for the $ 17.5 million which is our share. If the fundraising falls short and until the Laurier Campus happens, if it does, it is the Taxpayers of Milton who will have to make up the difference. Considering all the other challenges we face as a growing community, the biggest being the hopital expansion, I question if going ahead with this is in the best interest of the town.

From what I am hearing from the majority of Miltonians is they do not support this if it is going to cost the taxpayers any money. The only way that can happen is if by Jan. 23rd we have ironclad contracts for financial support from the private sector for $ 12 million dollars and an annoucement from the province that yes we will be getting the Laurier Campus within the next 3 years. I can not see that all happening before we as a council have to vote on this.

Rick Malboeuf
Councillor Ward 4