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Should we proceed with the velodrome?
This is a terrible idea. Kill it on sight 48%  48%  [ 64 ]
This is a fantastic idea/We should proceed if the funding works 52%  52%  [ 69 ]
Total votes : 133
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2012 8:42 pm 
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[quote="garlis"]Thanks to Councillor Malboeuf for dodging the pom-poms and showing some healthy skepticism for this risky project.

Now taxpayers must hope that all the assumptions unfold as written, and that there is enough oxygen left to feed an even bigger hospital fundraising.

I note with interest that even Ward 3 voted in favour of the velodrome. I see a long line of rural folks showing up with training wheels on their 3-speeds to try it out. Not! :lol:[/quote]

WORDS WELL SPOKEN, GARLIS, I THINK COUNCILLOR NELSON ALSO SAW THE WISDOM OF NOT VOTING FOR THE VELODROME. I KNOW SOME PEOPLE IN WARD 3 AND THE VOTE BY COUNCILLORS BEST AND LUNAU DID NOT REFLECT THE RURAL FOLKS WISHES IN REGARD TO THE VELODROME. THESE TWO COUNCILLORS ALWAYS VOTE FOR MORE TAXES, VOTE FOR SURTAXES AND HAVE A SPEND, SPEND, SPEND AND. TAX, TAX, TAX PHILOSOPHY.

I'D LIKE TO SEE MALBOEUF OR NELSON RUN FOR MAYOR AND PERHAPS WE'LL SEE SOME SENSIBLE LEADERSHIP AND DIRECTION IN MILTON'S GROWTH. RIGHT NOW, THE MILTON SHIP HAS LOST ITS RUDDER.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2012 8:51 pm 
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[quote="Rick Di Lorenzo"][quote="Joan"]Hello Rick:
Thanks for your reply. The Town is using Milton Hydro as an in-kind donation toward the Town's capital commitment. It is part of the 19.8M of the Town's portion for the Velodrome. Can you provide the stats which would show the cost of the geothermal system and the retrieval income which shows the system would pay for itself? Also, Rick, has the Board of Directors approved the installation of this system.

The Town receives over 2 million dollars from Milton Hydro which represents profit and debt repayment(deemed debt). This money goes into the Town's what I call general funds. Is any of this money being used to fund the Velodrome.

Correct me if I am wrong, but green initiatives, which the geo system falls under, are expenses which Milton Hydro writes off?[/quote]Hi Joan, I'll try to answer each question. Some of them I may not know an answer yet, or may not know if info is part of the public domain (Milton Hydro is a private utility and doesn't share all of it's business cases/proprietary info with the public)

I know people say "Milton Hydro" in relation to the GeoThermal project but actually it's "Milton Energy and Generation Solutions Inc." which although is related to Milton Hydro, is a seperate entity. MEGS (Milton Energy and Solutions Inc.) operations would not affect Milton Hydro's rates for electricity. That's the question I was replying to in your original post.

HI RICK;
YOU ARE ON THE BOARD OF DIRECTORS AT MILTON HYDRO. DID THE BOARD OF DIRECTORS APPROVE CONTRACTING WITH THE TOWN OF MILTON TO INSTALL THE GEO THERMAL SYSTEM AND TO PROVIDE THIS INSTALLATION AS AN IN-KIND DONATION TOWARD THE VELODROME COSTS? WHAT WOULD THE VALUE OF THESE IN-KIND DONATION BE?

I can not provide stats which would show the cost of the system and income would pay for itself as those type of statistics or business case by a private utility corporation has either not been completed and/or not released to the public. But personally my opinion is a private corporation that has a responsibility to it's shareholders to be profitable on a going forward basis - it would be counter-productive to do a venture that didn't have a positive business case behind it.

Personally, I wouldn't classify MEGs involvement as an "in-kind donation" and personally I wouldn't support MEGs "donating" money to the velodrome.

The money that Milton Hydro sends to the town as dividend payments is not as far as I know being redirected by Milton Hydro to pay for the velodrome.

Also no, AFAIK this Geothermal plan of MEGS would not be a write-off by Milton Hydro as a green initiative.[/quote]


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2012 8:56 pm 
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[quote="Rick Di Lorenzo"][quote="KGC"]I thought the infrastructure levy was for all infrastructure and not just the velodrome based on earlier articles in the Champion, etc. Rick DiLorenzo will need to clarify. The $250,000 reserve (1.5% asset value) [page 163 and 361 of 440] translates to a capital cost of $16.7 million. At 2.5% that would work out to $417,000, not $1,000,000. As such I am having trouble following your numbers. [/quote]The infrastructure reserve motion was for all current infrastructure assets and was not for the velodrome or any one particular asset. I think Martin was just trying to use that as a cross example somehow.

I'm still waiting for a future report on our long-term infrastructure renewal liabilities and staff recomendations on how to address this. I'm really hoping it becomes a serious issue as if it's put off for years & years it just compounds the future debt and puts us in a difficult future predicament.[/quote]

HI RICK;
HELP ME TO UNDERSTAND WHY THE TOWN DOESN'THAVE MONEY IN THE RESERVE--HOW COULD THE TOWN HAVE DONE THINGS DIFFERENTLY IN THE LAST 10 YEAS SINCE THE BUILDING BOOM STARTED IN MILTON


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2012 9:30 pm 
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Mike_Cluett wrote:
In keeping with our committment to hearing from residents on important issues that we face, the Town of Milton is looking for your input on the possible velodrome proposal that is coming up for councils review later this month.

This effort accomplishes two things. One is to get the all important feedback from residents on the direction of the town and second is to clear up any questions you may have about it. Its no secret that I have been a supporter of the idea as well as getting more information on the velodromes potential, its costs and the long term impact on the town of Milton. I am not 100 per cent on board with this until we “get the numbers”.

I was supportive of the project with the caveat that the impact on Milton taxpayers be minimal to zero (with no impact being my goal) from day one. I beleive that with this project in place, it will kick start the much needed approval for the Milton Education Village / Laurier University campus on the west side of town. You can search my blog for “velodrome” to see more of what has been discussed.

Please take some time to visit the Town’s website and provide your input today so that council can be presented with the full picture on the January 23rd meeting when the decision is to be made. We want to hear from you. Click on my linkto contact your town councillor if you would like to send us your comments directly. My email is
mike@mikecluett.ca

NEWS RELEASE



January 10, 2012

Town of Milton seeks community input on Velodrome
The Town of Milton invites the community to provide input on the proposed Velodrome through the Town’s website, http://www.milton.ca.

In December 2011, Toronto 2015 Pan/Parapan Am Games announced Milton as the preferred site for the Velodrome. A business plan is scheduled to be presented to Council on January 23, 2012 after which Council will decide whether or not to proceed with the Velodrome and hosting the Pan/Parapan Am Games.

“We are looking forward to learning from members of the Milton community how this major facility can best meet their recreational needs,” said Town of Milton Mayor Gord Krantz. “I encourage everyone to visit our website to find out more about this proposed facility and what it can mean for the Milton community.”

The Velodrome webpage will include information on location, funding, timelines, as well as plans for the Velodrome after the Pan/Parapan Am Games. Public input and comments are invited to be submitted through the webpage and will be accepted until January 18, 2012.

For more information or to provide input, visit http://www.milton.ca/en/townhall/velodrome.asp.

- 30 -

For further information, please contact:

Jennifer Reynolds - Director, Community Services - 905-878-7252, ext. 2180


HI MIKE;
CAN YOU HELP ME UNDERSTAND WHAT THE MINIMUM IMPACT OR NO IMPACT ON MILTON TAXPAYERS IS IN REGARD TO THE VELODROME?

IN YOUR STATEMENT ABOVE, YOU STATE 'VISIT WEBSITE TO PROVIDE INPUT SO COUNCIL CAN BE PRESENTED WITH FULL PICTURE ... WHEN DECISIONS ARE TO BE MADE. WE WANT TO HEAR FROM YOU" IN VIEW OF THIS STATEMENT,CAN YOU HELP ME UNDERSTAND WHY COUNCIL WOULD VOTE FOR THE VELODROME WHEN THE POLL WAS 60% AGAINST AND 24% SUPPORTIVE
.


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 Post subject: Re: Velodrome
PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2012 9:48 pm 
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[quote="Mike_Cluett"]The final business plan is being drafted as we speak and will be presented to council on the 23rd of January, one day before the deadline. It will be available a few days before the meeting which will give councillors an opportunity to digest it. I am one of those very encouraged by this project. As Ive stated before this is an opportunity to kick start business development in Milton by the proposed education village site.

One of the things we need to do as council is to foster a positive economic environment for jobs to be created and this signals to the business community that we're open for business. The other key to this growth will be the Derry Green business park as well.

I along with the rest of the council are anxious to review the business plan in the coming weeks.[/quote]

HI MIKE;
COULD YOU EXPLAIN HOW THE VELODOME WILL KICK START BUSINESS IN MILTON. THE PERMANENT JOBS WHICH WILL BE CREATED ARE THE FULL AND PART TIME STAFF WHO WILL BE ON THE TOWN PAYROLL. THERE WILL BE EMPLOYMENT DUE TO THE CONSTRUCTION, BUT THESE WOULD BE SHORT LIVED JOBS AND THE PEOPLE MAY NOT EVEN LIVE IN MILTON. THERE WILL BE SOME INCREASE AT LOCAL HOTELS/MOTELS WHEN THERE ARE COMPETITIONS AT THE VELODROME. WHAT ELSE DO YOU SEE HAPPENING/


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2012 9:53 pm 
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Joan, either somewhere in your profile or you may be doing this manually in each of your posts but you have BBCode turned "off" which is causing all your posts to not properly quote.

I'm guessing your profile is setup that way. You can fix it by clicking on "User Control Panel" which is near the top right of the screen while your logged in. Then clicking on "Board preferences" on the menu on the left, then "Edit Posting Defaults". Look for the option that says "Enable BBCode by default:" and set it to "YES". With that turned on in the future when you quote someone it will look all proper and nice.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2012 10:13 pm 
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[quote="colin b."]Hi Freemantrailfamily

The $ 39.6 million Sherwood Community Centre which is planned to be built in 2014/15 to serve the 40,000+ residents who live in this area (page page 385 of the 2012 Capital budget 2012-2022) does not have a definite location yet but it is to be located within the Sherwood survey west of Bronte St. The design work is budgeted for 2013 to fix a location and features of the building which is the major reason for the Town being interested in the velodrome unlike other municipalities as the 20,000 sq. ft. infield space would be deducted from the recreation centre which would include an ice rink, possible indoor pool and library similar to other recreation centres in Oakville and Burlington which are also funded by development charges. The community centre could also be located within the Education Village along with the new Sheridan College campus and other uses.

The $ 39.6 million Boyne Community Centre also funded from development charges is planned for construction in 2017/18 within the Boyne Survey south of Louis St. Laurent Blvd. between Tremaine and James Snow Parkway for the 50,000 new residents who will be moving into the area, possibly as early as the fall of 2014 when the proposed velodrome is anticipated to open.

See the attached map for the approved plan for the current town expansion.


HI COLIN;
DID I READ IN THE BUSINESS PLAN THAT THE IN-FIELD AT THE VELODROME IS 'SECONDARY USE' AND CAN ONLY BE USED WHEN IT DOESN'T INTERFERE THE PROFESSIONAL CYCLING ACTIVITIES. DOESN'T THIS SHORT CHANGE THE SHERWOOD COMMUNITY RESIDENTS SINCE THEY WILL NOT BE ABLE TO ACCESS THE GYM FACILITIES AS MUCH WHEN COMPARED TO THE GYMS BEING LOCATED AT SHERWOOD/

http://www.miltonthiswayup.ca/pdfs/Sche ... e_Plan.pdf

These plans do not include the 75,000+ new residents starting in 2021 within the Sustainable Halton area south of Britannia road and along both sides of Trafalgar road near the proposed GO station on the west side of Trafalgar just south of the #401. The regional planning and public works committee as already received requests for water and waste water allocations in this area by some builders.

Colin Best
Local & regional councillor
Wards 2,3,4,5 North of Derry road.
Milton/Halton[/quote]


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2012 10:45 pm 
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Joan wrote:
HI RICK;
HELP ME TO UNDERSTAND WHY THE TOWN DOESN'THAVE MONEY IN THE RESERVE--HOW COULD THE TOWN HAVE DONE THINGS DIFFERENTLY IN THE LAST 10 YEAS SINCE THE BUILDING BOOM STARTED IN MILTON
The town does have different reserve funds but some are shrinking while others are not keeping up with the asset growth rate.

Milton does not have a public & transparent infrastructure reserve fund like some municipalities do. i.e. in a public way, monitor the infrastructure growth that occurs and allocate appropriate funds to a dedicated and visible infrastructure reserve fund so those assets are financially sustainable. This is important for municipalities like us that have high growth rates as you get infrastructure that is built all around the same time frame (relatively speaking) that will start to reach end of life around the same time. The infrastructure gets built using development charges but then when renewal comes up where's the money going to come from? It will hit the tax payer with a big whallop.

Mississauga is just starting to experience this problem and there's not much they can do about it now but start piling on debt, increase taxes and/or cut services. Their last tax increase was 7.4% which included a big 'infrastructure reserve levy'. The irony is them doing an infrastructure reserve fund levy now in 2012 is really closing the barn doors after the horse has already bolted. Mississauga's new "norm" is going to be significant tax increases year-over-year with ongoing infrastructure problems.

IMHO really Milton should have started planning for and setting up an infrastructure reserve fund at the same time as the growth rate started to climb many years ago. Each year it gets postponed just compounds the problem. But I've been accused of 'fear mongering'on the topic by one councillor so please do your own due diligence.

Remember, if we do nothing and just "wait and see" we're still probably going to be fine for the next 10 or 15 years (or more? hard to tell since we still don't have long term studies going out past 10 years). It's easy to ignore because it doesn't become a problem until far off in the future, and by the time it becomes noticable it will be too late anyways to avoid it. So currently in my opinion we're emulating Mississauga because of course it's all working out so fantastic for them.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2012 10:51 pm 
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Taxes in this town in about 10 years are going to be frightning .


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 9:16 am 
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Cutter wrote:
Taxes in this town in about 10 years are going to be frightning .


Not as frighting as what it would be like if the town didn't have any interest in doing anything but building houses.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 9:19 am 
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Cutter wrote:
Taxes in this town in about 10 years are going to be frightning .
No worries!

10 years from now:
- Development charges will continue as Mattamy gets Milton support to build 30,000 homes above the escarpment.
- Milton will get mega-millions by selling town naming rights to Mattamy.
- Mohawk becomes a full casino, tripling free cash payments to the City of Mattamy.
- Gord, newly re-elected by a big majority, again suggests no tax increases greater than inflation (approaching 10%).

Party on! :)


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 9:37 am 
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Joan wrote:
HI MIKE;
CAN YOU HELP ME UNDERSTAND WHAT THE MINIMUM IMPACT OR NO IMPACT ON MILTON TAXPAYERS IS IN REGARD TO THE VELODROME?

IN YOUR STATEMENT ABOVE, YOU STATE 'VISIT WEBSITE TO PROVIDE INPUT SO COUNCIL CAN BE PRESENTED WITH FULL PICTURE ... WHEN DECISIONS ARE TO BE MADE. WE WANT TO HEAR FROM YOU" IN VIEW OF THIS STATEMENT,CAN YOU HELP ME UNDERSTAND WHY COUNCIL WOULD VOTE FOR THE VELODROME WHEN THE POLL WAS 60% AGAINST AND 24% SUPPORTIVE..


Hi Joan,

Some of the input received through the Towns website was against the project...yes. Many of the comments received that werent in favour gave reasons like the money should go to the hospital, or Main Street underpass, but like was explained at the council meeting and through my public information session last week, the $3.8 million contribution from the town came from development charges that were allotted to recereational facilities. By law (Development Charges Act 1997) we are not allowed to take from one pool or reserve account and put into another. Same goes for roads, infrastructure etc. If we were allowed to do that, the hospital expansion reserve account wouldnt be an issue.

This $3.8 million didnt come from the tax base, but from development. The money was set aside for a community centre in the area and our direction to staff and the consultants who prepared the business plan, we wanted to have the facility multi purposed before the construction of the velodrome/community centre. The facility will have a 300 m walking track similar to the Milton Sports Centre (which is highly popular and used by hundreds and the number grows every day), and it will have a fitness facility as well as the infield being the size of 3 basketball courts for other uses as well.

It simply isnt just a cycling facility.

Joan wrote:
HI MIKE;
COULD YOU EXPLAIN HOW THE VELODOME WILL KICK START BUSINESS IN MILTON. THE PERMANENT JOBS WHICH WILL BE CREATED ARE THE FULL AND PART TIME STAFF WHO WILL BE ON THE TOWN PAYROLL. THERE WILL BE EMPLOYMENT DUE TO THE CONSTRUCTION, BUT THESE WOULD BE SHORT LIVED JOBS AND THE PEOPLE MAY NOT EVEN LIVE IN MILTON. THERE WILL BE SOME INCREASE AT LOCAL HOTELS/MOTELS WHEN THERE ARE COMPETITIONS AT THE VELODROME. WHAT ELSE DO YOU SEE HAPPENING?


The business plan outlines a seperate business structure / non profit corporation in charge of running the facility. The Town will own the building but because of the technical experience that will be needed to run the cycling part of the velodrome they will be in charge of recruiting those people and they will run seperate from the town. So they will not be "town" employees and not on the town payroll.

Construction will bring jobs for sure as this wont be an easy building to construct. Where I see the job growth and boost to the economy is from the people coming from outside Milton to attend events and use the cycling track. Forest City Velodrome in London sees almost 18 hours a day of visitors (which pay fees of course...revenue) to use it. Many of those are from the GTA, our area and from the surrounding area. I also see growth coming from the Milton Education Village, while not yet approved by the province of Ontario it will happen. The business case for approval of it makes sense. The province of Ontario has millions invested in the Pan Am games. They have identified Milton as one of 3 possible locations for a satelite campus. It would make sense for them to approve Milton as that location given the velodrome being a key part of the Pan Am games. With the MEV, the business retail growth in the area will be kick started and thats what we will need in the area.

With the potential of many national/international cycling events there will be a need for more hotels which is perfect for Mohawk Racetrack/Woodbine Entertainment group to move forward with their plans for a future hotel. Its not just people who participate in the event to need hotels, but people for setup, media etc.

One of the key parts of the MEV is the research park which will help attract companies in that industry to move their operations closer and that means moving to Milton. I see it like a set of dominos, with one pushed forward and set the others in motion.

The message I want to send to businesses is that Milton is the location to consider. We are currently working on Derry Green corporate business park which will bring much needed jobs and opportunities for Miltonians to live/work in town.

Another main part of Monday night that seems to have been lost is that this is all pending the approval of zoning concerns in the area. As Martin mentioned ROPA 38 is under appeal and the town needs to get these zoning problems addressed before a shovel hits the ground. Staff and everyone involved is working on this and that report will come to council as quickly as possible. Once they have been addressed, the town will enter into the memorandum of understanding with all the parties involved.

_________________
Mike Cluett
Local/Regional Councillor
Wards 1,6,7 & 8

Website | Email mike@mikecluett.ca | Cell (647) 888-9032 | Facebook Page | | Twitter @Mike_Cluett


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 9:45 am 
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First, I apologize for not spending the time to review all the contributions to this thread. To my point:
- The Town is growing at a pace that is unsustainable. Decisions made under these circumstances are high risk and it is not uncommon for actual project budgets and expenditures to exceed planned or advertised budgets by at least 50% especially when things are fast-tracked.
- Elected officials should consider a referendum with the facts on the table and let the residents decide if this is a go or no go. I don't recall this being an issue during the last election so this council and this mayor really have no mandate for this investment.
- Promoting the Town "complete with world class bicycle facilities" is NOT NOW the politically correct thing to do given what is going on financially and with our provincial and federal governments now out of money...... do we really really need this now....

I'd rather see the money and investments going to our hospital, wouldn't you?
............. end of rant. :cry:


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 10:18 am 
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Any thought in putting the BMX track slated for Centennial Park into this facility. I've heard they are going to knock it down after the games are finished.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 10:20 am 
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MP wrote:
First, I apologize for not spending the time to review all the contributions to this thread. To my point:
- The Town is growing at a pace that is unsustainable. Decisions made under these circumstances are high risk and it is not uncommon for actual project budgets and expenditures to exceed planned or advertised budgets by at least 50% especially when things are fast-tracked.
- Elected officials should consider a referendum with the facts on the table and let the residents decide if this is a go or no go. I don't recall this being an issue during the last election so this council and this mayor really have no mandate for this investment.
- Promoting the Town "complete with world class bicycle facilities" is NOT NOW the politically correct thing to do given what is going on financially and with our provincial and federal governments now out of money...... do we really really need this now....

I'd rather see the money and investments going to our hospital, wouldn't you?
............. end of rant. :cry:


You really should have read the rest of the thread, or attended at least one meeting.


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