HawthorneVillager.com

Tina Turner and Mel Gibson should cut the ribbon.

You are not the only one struggling that is why I chose to run again for council to try and get spending and tax increases under control, we have to get back to providing the services we are suppose to provide and can provide efficiently and stop getting involved in areas that are not our responsibility, such as Art Centers, gymnasiums, and velodromes these are better left to the private sector. As for who is responsible for the current problems we are facing just to let you know my previous term on council was between 1997 and 2003, when we provided a higher level of service with no increases in property taxes. What occured between 2003 ansd 2010 I had no control over.

Rick Malboeuf
Councillor Ward 4[/quote]

I do applaud your sense of fiscal responsibility and dedication to essential services.

It was mentioned how many think government needs to act with the same accountability as the private sector. But there are other things that can and should be applied from the business world. In todays market if you stand still you get run over. The most successful companies are constantly evolving and adapting to their environment and searching for new opportunities. If it is required, they reinvent themselves, but the most successful stay true to their brand.

You can see where I am going. The mayor and the counsel members that are for the velodrome can see this is an over time it will become evident that the municipalities that have grown successfully have applied out of the box thinking.

Milton's reputation can shift from a sprawling urban centre, to that of a community of forward thinking enthusiast that have not exploited their environment but reaped the benefits of it.

If it interests you, I'll give you your first lesson on riding the banks. A single 2 hour lesson and you'll be on the top band and doing track stands.

See, this comment goes to the heart of why so many, probably more so in "Old Milton" wards like Rick Malbouef represents, are opposed to our recent rapid and lavish spending on arts centers and velodromes and other non-essential amenities.

So many people in new Milton -- who, let's face it, largely moved here because homes are cheaper than Toronto or Mississauga -- immediately start complaining that Milton doesn't have all the amenities of a Toronto or Mississauga. And they want the existing tax base to fund all kinds of new facilities and programs ASAP and don't want to wait for any of it.

Well there's nothing wrong with that, certainly. It's human nature to see things from an inwardly-focused perspective re. how they affect the self and the immediate family, and to want lots amenities funded by the overall tax base vs. the personal pocketbook.

But here's another perspective for you. There are a lot of people in older Milton on fixed incomes who are really struggling. I don't mean struggling with commute times or big box stores or dental office locations. I mean struggling with affording food to eat and their home to stay in.

I know this because I have been helping just such a person over the last several years. He has special needs, is on a fixed income, and has lived in the same house for over 25 years. He doesn't want to move from his home. But there's no longer any choice as prices and taxes are going up so much that it will be suicide to stay. So it's being sold and we're moving him to a smaller place because his fixed income just can't keep up with increasing taxes (this has been trending for many years now) and increased utility and other upkeep costs on the house. Utilities have gone up a lot re. the grossly unfair time-of-use billing that penalizes people like seniors and the disabled who are home during the day, plus the increased HST tax on same. Property taxes are going up every year. And other prices like core food staples have really gone up, leaving that much less wiggle room for fixed incomes to cover such increases in taxes and utilities.

I'm not trying to make this personal for you re. the velodrome specifically. The velodrome is just the latest in a pretty big lineup of big-spending initiatives. And I totally understand why you're in favour of it -- I likely would be too if I had a family who'd use it and if I didn't see firsthand the impact of our spending on a longtime fixed income Miltonian. But color me jaded for not expecting this thing to pay for itself, regardless of what a consultant who we're already paying $95K of our tax dollars to (and who no doubt knows where his bread is buttered) says.

Just read this in the champion

http://www.insidehalton.com/news/articl ... lton-s-bid

To be honest I haven't paid much attention to this until I came across this thread. And reading this, I'm concerned.

The Mayor is saying this thing is going to happen, and we want it. He doesn't want to see the business plan, his mind is made up. Councillors on this thread have said they are simply waiting to see the final business plan before deciding, and that will be a few days before we vote to commit to this on the 23rd?

So you guys will have a few days to read a business plan, detailing tens of millions of dollars, and then commit all of us to it? I'm hoping that this isn't the case, I know the champion frequently simplify's things in its reporting....

Reading the above article, it looks like you guys are going to commit a LOT of money to this. The towns share almost 40 million, with "most" of it coming from private funders? So 'most' to me is 51%. Am I right to assume that 20 million will come from taxes? Even if those taxes come from development charges, thats still somebody elses money. Your just saying "Don't worry, I'll make the other guy pay". How do you justify this thing being worth 20 million tax dollars? And there's a $70 million legacy fund, which nobody knows how much we will get. So we're going to shoot for this, and take whatever is offered to us, and then when that money runs out, who gets left holding the bag? The tax payer. We just have to wait 5 or 10 years to see the tax increases.

I'm also concerned that Mattamy is pitching 9 million bucks. What sort of back scratches are they getting from this? Don't tell me it's all good natured charity. These guys are funding local politicians campaigns, and kicking in money for local projects for a reason. What are they getting for it? Something stinks here.

The more I learn about this, the more I have to agree with Rick M. This thing is going to saddle the citizens of this town with nothing more then a glorified bike track that costs millions to maintain, and brings debatable benefits to the people who pay through the nose for it.

Bremer, you're usually better than this. You usually don't misrepresent the facts, but you're way off here. A typo I hope? The Town's share is 40%, not $40million. So if only the barest "majority" of 51% comes from private funding that brings the Town down to 49% of $17.6million which is $8.6million. $3.8million of that is already marked for recreation facilities anyways. Now we're down to under $5million that's currently "unaccounted" for. This all assuming that staff comes back with only 51% private funding.
Also, the article never quotes Krantz as saying "We want it. It's happening." Maybe he really wants it as a legacy project, but I don't read that he's shoving down council's throat.
From what I've seen proposed (informally, so far) this isn't a "glorified bike track" but a multi-service structure. Of course we won't know until designs are submitted and one is chosen what we're actually getting. (3 full size gyms is a LOT of space and that's just inside the oval, nevermind the "exterior" spaces.)
Let's see what the report actually says, shall we?

I'm going to blame poor reporting from the Champion. There is a 40M reference in there, so that's what I ran with. They don't lay out the numbers as clearly as Zeesh did. I think the 40M is Milton Share+the Local Share. I don't know who this "local" guy is.

And while I was paraphrasing, the Mayors comments in the article can be summed up as a committing to this project. And the business plan isn't done yet, so yeah, it's happening, at least if he has his way. I don't like his enthusiasm when all the facts aren't available yet.

Zeeshan's followup brings more clarity to this, and I feel more comfortable with the numbers. The more I learn about this, the more I like it, but I'm still feeling queasy about it.

I find it absurd that Mattamy would pay 9M for naming rights and free access for employees. Thats a ripoff. So whats the secret deal? And who pays if this goes over budget?

Alright Zeesh. I'll support your plan of action for now. <gives suspicious look>.... but I'm watching you. <gets gun polishing kit from closet>

[Mattamy is not paying 9M for naming rights. They have committed to paying 2M for that and free access. The balance of private sector money mentionned 10M is what Peter Gilgan and TD CEO expect to raise through fund raising, but there are no firm commitments on this amount. As for the Laurier portion again we have not received any word from the province as to when and if this Milton Campus will become a reality. As to who will pay if their is a shortfall in the fund raising it will be Milton taxpayers, if it goes over budget as I understand it Milton would be responsible for it's 44% share., but no worries we've been assured by the Pam-Am Games committee that these games will not go over budget.

Zeeshan has made some very good points and I have no problem with the numbers he has presented, the only thing I want to make clear is that as of today none of that private sector money is gauranteed. I am confidant that if the business plan results in taxpayers money being needed to support this velodrome, Zeeshan and maybe 1 or 2 others may change their vote. Just like if it can be shown that this will not end up being a burden on the taxpayer than I could change my position. But based on what I have seen to date I can't see that happening in the short time we have before we as a Town have to a make the commitment.

Rick Malboeuf
Ward 4

No ergocentric - a multiuse facility as has been repeated over and over. One would hope it would be set up such that you would be able to rent a bike (assuming they go the way of some other velodromes if the project moves ahead). The bikes could be owned and rented by a not-for-profit org (looking at the LA model as an example).

It wouldn't be serving the current 90,000 or so people in Milton. It would be serving the community in the Golden Horseshoe - 8 million or so, and could become a world class training center for cycling athletes from across Canada, particularly if paired with an post-secondary educational institution like Wilfred Laurier (something that won't be approved before the decision needs to be made so that's a potential risk).

I agree with you. Let's just do the gym with badminton then, and forget about the "velodrome" part of it, geeez. This whole "multi-use" facility argument is fallacious, as if we won't have any gyms in town without committing to a 40 million dollar velodrome.


It would be nice to have all kinds of "world class" things in Milton, but we can't afford to keep up these levels of spending and we should be prioritizing on things that really make a difference to the lives of actual Miltoners.

Maybe the 8 million Golden Horseshoe residents as well as cycling athletes from across Canada should find some other suckers to pay for their world class training center. Oh, wait a minute, I guess they can't ... because every other municipality has already shot this goofy boondoggle down.

Now your are just proving you have no clue. Both about the facility and about bikes.
For the sake of brevity I'll show one example of a hi end entry level bike. for less then have you "think" a bike costs. The truth is you can get into a bike for about $400.00 and spend as much as 10k.

http://www.feltbicycles.com/USA/2012/Tr ... s/TK3.aspx

My hunch is that the Milton velodrome is a done deal. All that is required is an optimistic staff report to provide political cover for those who will vote yes on January 23.

That report might say:
- No taxpayer money is required. Ignore the $95k for a consultant and the contribution in-kind from Milton Hydro.
- The campus is not approved and Laurier will not put up $2.8 million unless it is. McGuinty is short of cash. Not to worry, Laurier will pay later when the campus is approved.
- Corporate contributions are not guaranteed, but they are good for it even in a worsening economy.
- Even though local corporations (like Mattamy) donate to the velodrome they will still make big contributions to the local share of the hospital expansion when asked.
- There are no firm numbers on contributions for ongoing operating costs but there will be lots for a long time.
- We are confident of our capital cost estimates.
-There may be dire consequences if Milton backs out now.

I hope I am wrong. I also hope they don’t shoot the messenger when Councillor Malboeuf poses his tough questions.

You're not wrong. Of course it's already a done deal.

And clearly they're just waiting on staff and the consultant's report to provide the cover. Then the councilors will post idiotic sales-school-101 type math examples purporting to show how much fiscal sense this scheme makes, regardless of the fact that it's all just fun with numbers since the bulk of the funding isn't actually committed (minor detail). In what parallel universe do fundraising goals count as actual funding?

I just hope there are more Malboeufs running for council come next election cycle. Someone has to stop mortgaging the town's future.

+1. Why does everyone ensist on turning Milton into the next Mississauga. It was fine the way it was. If you don't like it move or better yet stay in Mississauga. Why would people move here for the small town feel and then bitch and complain there is nothing here and want to turn it into a big city. Why does Milton need to be a tourist attraction can't it just be home.