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PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 12:41 pm 
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GMC2007 wrote:
United way is another scam... Doesn't the CEO make over 500,000.00 a year . Due to the fact that your donating to a charity lets you receive a tax credit?


Kind of why I mentioned the Hospital Foundation as an alternative hoping some councillors would go that route instead, though I have friends in need who were really helped out by United Way so don't think it's a total scam. As for getting a tax reciept for said chariatable donation, why does that really matter? The councillor salary doesn't exactly bump most of these guys into the next tax bracket when added onto their day jobs and a $1700.00/year donation only results in a $640.00 tax credit.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 12:45 pm 
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GMC2007 wrote:
United way is another scam... Doesn't the CEO make over 500,000.00 a year . Due to the fact that your donating to a charity lets you receive a tax credit?


In their report "Public Sector Salary Disclosure 2009," the Ontario Ministry of Finance lists a base annual salary of $176,538.42 with additional taxable benefits of $11,956.29 for Al Hatton, the President and CEO of the United Way of Canada.

http://www.fin.gov.on.ca/en/publication ... erp09.html


Just because a Tax Reciept is issued, doesn't mean it's used.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 12:47 pm 
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Hey Zee.... First of all your arguement that had the amendment Mike and I put forward passed it would have put the onus on the next council to vote themselves this 15% raise. That is not correct. The amendment was quite clear that the recommended increase would be effective Jan 2015 that would have been a decision made by this council effective for the new council. When we approved the 2011 budget, included in there was the 17% increase that the previous council had approved for itself, there was no outcry from the public that we the new council had given ourselves a raise. Also as for the comment that you were simply supporting the citizen's committee recommendation. On page 179 of the report top paragraph it states " The Committee did not specify the time frame for the phasing-in of the salary adjustments, only that the recommended salary adjustments are to be fully implemented prior to the 2014 election...." The recommendation to phase-in the increase beginning January 2012 was a staff recommendation supported by the majority of council.

I have trouble understanding your comments trying to justify our sending 9 councillors to AMO compared to Burlington's 1. We as a council establish the budget for conventions and conferences the same as Burlington does, because it is in the budget, you believe we have to spend it, why not try and show some leadership and work in finding ways to save money ? When this issue came up at council I put forward a motion to limit the number of councillors attending AMO to 3, not surprisingly that was voted down. There is no reason to send 9 councillors to Ottawa, we would be more than covered with the Mayor, Colin Best for the Region and 2 members of Milton Council. Had this convention been held in North Bay in February instead of Ottawa in August, I wonder how many of you would have attended ??

Rick Malboeuf
Councillor Ward 4


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 12:48 pm 
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Tony Lambert wrote:
Hi Hawthorny,

I will not be accepting the pay increase over 3 years, and have instructed the town of Milton the same this morning.

Thank You,
Tony

Tony Lambert
Local & Regional Councillor
Wards 1,6,7 and 8
tony.lambert@milton.ca
cell: 647 220 9728


Just shows who the leaders and followers are. Good for you for jumping on Mike and Rick M's bandwagon Tony.
Holy CRAP quotes give me problems on this site!


Last edited by freemantrailfamily on Tue Jun 26, 2012 12:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 12:49 pm 
Tony Lambert wrote:
Hawthorny wrote:

So I am starting to understand the struggle here. If you guys phase it in after you are on council, the new council would still have to approve the budget, thereby giving the optics that they are giving themselves a pay raise even though it was introduced by the prior council. So either way it is going to look bad, really sucks for you guys. Is there a way to provide a raise without a moral conflict of interest arising?

Additionally, while I appreciate you providing the money to charity, is there a way to just refuse the funds so they go back into the town? I believe Mike and Rick M did this without any issues. Would you and your fellow councillors be up for that alternative?


Hi Hawthorny,

I will not be accepting the pay increase over 3 years, and have instructed the town of Milton the same this morning.

Thank You,
Tony

Tony Lambert
Local & Regional Councillor
Wards 1,6,7 and 8
tony.lambert@milton.ca
cell: 647 220 9728



Lmao I would hope so!


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 12:50 pm 
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freemantrailfamily wrote:
Tony Lambert wrote:
Hi Hawthorny,

I will not be accepting the pay increase over 3 years, and have instructed the town of Milton the same this morning.

Thank You,
Tony

Tony Lambert
Local & Regional Councillor
Wards 1,6,7 and 8
tony.lambert@milton.ca
cell: 647 220 9728


Just shows who the leaders and followers are. Good for you for jumping on Mike and Rick M's bandwagon Tony.
Holy CRAP quotes give me problems on this site!


you really have it out for this guy, eh?


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 12:51 pm 
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Location: Arthur's Way
There are a number of options to review. As I did in the past - last July - I refused the 2% increase that was alloted for us via the budget. To my knoweldge everyone else accepted. Not saying its wrong, just their decision to make.

That is my first choice. I've looked into charities like UW and or hospital but I donate quite a bit thru events like Indulge recently et all and will likely just refuse it outright.

I'm glad to see others following my lead on this & I hope it catches on. :)

_________________
Mike Cluett
Local/Regional Councillor
Wards 1,6,7 & 8

Website | Email mike@mikecluett.ca | Cell (647) 888-9032 | Facebook Page | | Twitter @Mike_Cluett


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 12:55 pm 
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Tony Lambert wrote:

Hi Hawthorny,

I will not be accepting the pay increase over 3 years, and have instructed the town of Milton the same this morning.

Thank You,
Tony

Tony Lambert
Local & Regional Councillor
Wards 1,6,7 and 8
tony.lambert@milton.ca
cell: 647 220 9728


With all due respect Tony, your reputation for telling the truth isn't strong. I have a tough time believing you. If it's true, it's commendable, however I remain highly skeptical.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 1:00 pm 
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I like the idea someone had of donating it to the MDHF.
Good cause that benefits local residents.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 1:05 pm 
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munchito wrote:
freemantrailfamily wrote:
Tony Lambert wrote:
Hi Hawthorny,

I will not be accepting the pay increase over 3 years, and have instructed the town of Milton the same this morning.

Thank You,
Tony

Tony Lambert
Local & Regional Councillor
Wards 1,6,7 and 8
tony.lambert@milton.ca
cell: 647 220 9728


Just shows who the leaders and followers are. Good for you for jumping on Mike and Rick M's bandwagon Tony.
Holy CRAP quotes give me problems on this site!


you really have it out for this guy, eh?


Not a fan clearly. He also didn't say a peep about the salary increase at the council meeting, just here. At least Mike, Rick M, Zeeshan and others debated the matter. Not even including the DUI debacle, Tony's pretty much lived up to what I expected he would and why I never voted for him. I have not seen anything that would compel me to change my mind at this point and I normally like to give people the benefit of the doubt and second chances.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 1:34 pm 
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Rick Malboeuf wrote:
When we put our names forward to run for council we knew what the job paid and we agreed to accept the job for that salary. What council did last night was in my opinion ethically and morally wrong.

The average salary increases for the public sector is approx. 2 % while private sector increases have averaged below that or in some cases have been 0. So how can we justify giving ourselves a 15% increase. This increase on top of the 17% increase approved by the previous council means Milton Councillors salary would have increased by more than 35% by the end of this term.

The last election saw 7 new councillors elected, everyone of us at one time or another while we were campaigning criticized the decision of the previous council who gave themselves that 17% raise. Now here we are 18 months later and 4 of those newly elected ( Sharon Barkley was away ) councllors voted in favour of giving themselves a raise. Last night they did exactly what they had criticized previous council of doing. Another example of politicians saying one thing to get elected and doing the opposite after . This is why so many people have such a low opinion of politicians.

As for the argument that if we paid our politicians more we would get better qualified people seeking office. That is an argument that is always used by politicians to justify giving themselves higher than average salaries and benefits. But think about it are the politicians we have today any better than the ones we had 20 years ago ?

When I was first elected to council in 1997 the salary for Milton councillors was a little over 11K with no benefits. With this increase that will become 32K, nearly tripling the salary in less than 15 years. And in my opinion this crop of councillors is no more qualified than the council of 1997, in fact I would suggest that when you compare the overall makeup on council this one is less qualified. The council of 1997 was made up of older more experienced individuals, including an executive from a major bank, a lawyer, a teacher, a marketing executive and self employed business owners. So paying politicians more does not gaurantee a better quality of politicians, in fact it may cause the opposite as more people get involved in politics for the money, rather than the desire to serve.

I am disappointed with the decision of council last night, but not surprised. This is the same council that has approved tax increases at twice the rate of inflation, agreed to buy 3 new buses even though the ones we have are running at 25% capacity, this is the same council that is sending 9 members of council to the AMO conference in Ottawa at $2500 a pop, the City of Burlington is sending 1 we are sending 9 ?

So much for fiscal responsibility.

Rick Malboeuf
Councillor Ward 4


amazing, you take alot of heat here, but just want to say thank you for representing the majority of people's views in this case.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 1:42 pm 
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I've been reading this thread from the sidelines as I don't live in Milton but I have to say that I'd have more respect for councillors not accepting the raise outright. Even if you defer the raise to a charity it's condoning the increase and coming out of the taxpayers wallet.

From what I've read here I really admire the position taken by Mike C. & Rick M. The reason most of us become cynical of politicians is that they tend to say one thing before they are elected and then change their tune and try to justify once in.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 1:50 pm 
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Hi,

If what Zeeshan saying is right and the new council had to approve the budget if it was postponed. Couldn't you have postponed till the last year of this term and entered it in the last budget of this term to start or would that have been bad optics during an election year?


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 1:56 pm 
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stilldeciding wrote:
From what I've read here I really admire the position taken by Mike C. & Rick M. The reason most of us become cynical of politicians is that they tend to say one thing before they are elected and then change their tune and try to justify once in.


Kind of like ones who don't participate in debate or discussion, vote FOR the increase, then turn around the next day and say on an internet forum they are going to decline the increase??

Zeeshan and Rick whether you agree with their reasons (in this case I don't either, I do prefer Mike and Rick M's proposal), I can respect that they can back them up and we can debate with them. Salary is always a hot button issue, especially right now with economic conditions.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 2:05 pm 
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freemantrailfamily wrote:
stilldeciding wrote:
From what I've read here I really admire the position taken by Mike C. & Rick M. The reason most of us become cynical of politicians is that they tend to say one thing before they are elected and then change their tune and try to justify once in.


Kind of like ones who don't participate in debate or discussion, vote FOR the increase, then turn around the next day and say on an internet forum they are going to decline the increase??

Zeeshan and Rick whether you agree with their reasons (in this case I don't either, I do prefer Mike and Rick M's proposal), I can respect that they can back them up and we can debate with them. Salary is always a hot button issue, especially right now with economic conditions.


Did Tony actually vote for the increase? If so his comment earlier that he will be declining it really looks sleazy.


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