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Milton's tax rate DROPPED in 2010?
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Author:  morningsunshine [ Fri Oct 01, 2010 8:27 am ]
Post subject:  Milton's tax rate DROPPED in 2010?
Just browsing on town of Milton's website and noticed that property tax rates actually dropped between 2009 and 2010, if I'm reading it correctly. It looks like it went from 0.92% to 0.88% of the value of your home.

Wow! I'm impressed! It seems like Milton is able to balance spending with budget and that's a challenging thing to do. Not that I know much about politics, but what I do know is that the excessive over spending and waste of money that we hear about through government really worries me. I'm sure everything would like to jump in and complain about expansion and roads, etc. but every municipality has those issues and we're no different.

Anyway, my point is just that I'm impressed and think the Town is doing a good job!
Author:  Steve Heath [ Fri Oct 01, 2010 9:30 am ]
Post subject: 
But don't forget, those rates are applied to the assessed value of your house, so if assessments go up, even with the rates going down the total tax you pay for the year can still go up.
Author:  Fred D [ Fri Oct 01, 2010 10:00 am ]
Post subject: 
If assessment values have gone up by a large amount, this means that:

1) your home was undervalued / 'underassessed' in the years prior, and were therefore getting a 'deal' on your taxes in previous yrs, OR

2) home values actually HAVE gone up, which means you're a winner regardless.

The tax rate went DOWN, which is a win from the municipal government.
MPAC is a different beast. Are we now complaining about REDUCED tax rates?

If you're unhappy with your assessment, you need to contact MPAC directly. (I for one think the assessments are still quite fair in this town, since they used weighted increases - In my opinion, it's only time to reassess if property values do in fact decline, while the weighted increases are still rising.)
If you really want to open up a can of worms and challenge your assessment:

Quote:
STEP 1: Contact MPAC Customer Contact Centre at 1-866-296-MPAC (6722).

STEP 2: Review the Value of Properties Similar to Yours

Comparing your assessment to similar sold and unsold properties in your area will help you determine its accuracy. You can obtain information about your property and information on up to 24 additional properties of your choice and up to six selected by MPAC, Free of Charge.

STEP 3: Ask MPAC to Review Your Assessment Through a Request for Reconsideration (RfR)

If you still do not believe your assessed value or classification is accurate, MPAC will review it Free of Charge. The deadline to file your RfR is March 31 of the tax year.
Author:  Steve Heath [ Fri Oct 01, 2010 10:42 am ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
2) home values actually HAVE gone up, which means you're a winner regardless.


Unless you plan to live there for a long time, in which case your gain is unrealized theoretical capital gains (which may evaporate before the next assessment if the housing market decreases), but your out of pocket expenses are now higher. This hurts people on fixed incomes with inadequate savings.

Quote:
The tax rate went DOWN, which is a win from the municipal government.
MPAC is a different beast. Are we now complaining about REDUCED tax rates?


No, MPAC doesn't collect any money. The tax rate per $1,000 of housing went down. The tax rate per house went UP. It's not honestly reduced tax rates. I'm not complaining about the increase... total tax paid will probably go up every year due to inflation, I'm just pointing out that since x*y=z, and y and z both went up, it's disingenious to give credit to politicians for lowering x when it is nothing more than residual used to calculate the higher z they chose.
Author:  Knave [ Fri Oct 01, 2010 10:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Milton's tax rate DROPPED in 2010?
morningsunshine wrote:
Just browsing on town of Milton's website and noticed that property tax rates actually dropped between 2009 and 2010, if I'm reading it correctly. It looks like it went from 0.92% to 0.88% of the value of your home.


The percentage should always stay at the same level, should it not?

Roughly at least... there will obviously be fluctuations.
Author:  Fred D [ Fri Oct 01, 2010 10:52 am ]
Post subject: 
Steve Heath wrote:
Unless you plan to live there for a long time, in which case your gain is unrealized theoretical capital gains (which may evaporate before the next assessment if the housing market decreases), but your out of pocket expenses are now higher. This hurts people on fixed incomes with inadequate savings.

My point was that assessed values are always behind actual values, so why are we complaining? If the assessed value is skewed, THEN I see an excuse to complain about assessments causing increases.

Also, if a 3.24% increase on $3000/yr ($97/yr or $8.10/month) is hurting people on fixed incomes whose 350k homes just went up 7% in value, we have serious problems here. People with inadequate savings affected by an $8.10/month change should not really have been given approval to buy a home with a huge mortgage. That is not meant as an insult, it's meant as a reality check. (ESPECIALLY since their taxes should have been estimated properly by their banks to start off with, that's why I often blame the banks before I blame to homeowners :( )


Steve Heath wrote:
No, MPAC doesn't collect any money. ... it's disingenuous to give credit to politicians for lowering x when it is nothing more than residual used to calculate the higher z they chose.

I never said MPAC collected anything... as for your 2nd point, I agree. I wasn't giving credit to anybody, but the OP was, so I see where you're coming from. My first thought was morningsunshine, Major Krantz in disguise?? ok, perhaps a younger techsavvy relative? :)
Author:  Steve Heath [ Fri Oct 01, 2010 12:18 pm ]
Post subject: 
Fred... I hear what you're saying... from a perspective of most of the people in Milton, and a single year's relatively modest increase, I agree with you. I'm just saying that the problem isn't so much with people in the workforce but retired people who have had a house paid off for 30, 40 years... heck, my wife's grandmother lived in a house her father had built (not in Milton, but a similar situation). Yes, it means that they can sell their land/home here and move farther away with a nice profit... but that's a pretty lousy choice if they love the house and want to stay where their roots are.

Then again, maybe overall that's a good thing for society... there must be a reason property is so valuable here now. I don't know and I'm not screaming for change... just saying it's not an across the board win-win for everyone.

Oh, and as for MPAC collecting taxes, my point was that you said "Are we now complaining about REDUCED tax rates?"... and when you look at the actual taxes paid, they've actually gone up, so they aren't really reduced tax rates.

But overall we're pretty much in agreement in general... I just think your optimism was a bit too blanket :)
Author:  Fred D [ Fri Oct 01, 2010 12:59 pm ]
Post subject: 
I hear ya.

also, semantics - Tax RATE is the percentage, tax AMOUNT would be the total. so yes, the tax rate went down :)

I agree, it is not win/win for everybody, but I also think it is not lose/lose for ANYBODY.

I absolutely feel for the grandmother of 7 who has to pay higher property taxes as the years go on and as her asset value grows, BUT compared to the grandmother of 7 who is scraping by using pension to pay for rent, you really can't say it's that bad.
Also, if she is never going to sell, perhaps the children named in the inheritance should be helping with the small tax increases, since it's their windfall in the end (speaking financially ONLY, not emotionally of course.) I have this exact scenario in my family, actually, all is going well, and my >80 yr old nonna still enjoys her Toronto home on the 75x200' lot with the huge garden in the back she barely has the energy to tend to. That home is extremely important to her, and is worth many many multiples of what they paid for it decades ago, = >>>>> taxes way up too.
Author:  miltonLeo [ Fri Oct 01, 2010 1:22 pm ]
Post subject: 
Fred with all due respect the points you're making above, while all true, are not salient to the original point. It's not about real estate values or overall asset values or the total net worth of any individual taxpayer. It's about the fact that Milton taxes are in fact going UP and not down as the OP had claimed.

Bottom line, the town is raising taxes, because taxes = tax (mill) rate x assessed value.

The assessed values are set years in advance, btw. I can show you our MPAC reassessment letter on our old Milton property from 2007 or 2008 (can't remember) which lays our year-over-year increasing assessment value for each year through something like 2013.

The town knows the total assessed value of the base, and they know the total taxes they need to get to. The 'tax rate' is simply a calculated value. So for the initial poster to claim that the town is doing a great job because the calculated tax rate went down is incorrect.

Andrew's point above is the salient one:

Andrew Salmons wrote:
The tax rate went down, assessments went up, and your taxes went up.

The 2010 tax year had a 3.24% tax increase, with assessments up 7% (weighted).
http://www.milton.ca/execserv/minutes20 ... 7_2009.pdf

With yearly raises of 3%, with largest portion of the town operating expenses spent on salaries and benefits, the current trend is not sustainable when inflation is 1.5-2.0%.
http://www.andrewsalmons.ca/2010/06/vis ... -expenses/
Author:  Steve Heath [ Fri Oct 01, 2010 1:50 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
Tax RATE is the percentage, tax AMOUNT would be the total. so yes, the tax rate went down


Hahaha, ok, on that note, semantics...

Tax RATE computed as Tax/Assessed Value is down, but tax RATE computed as Tax/Purchase Price is up... um, so I guess they cancel out and there was no change in the tax rate :)

But I kid, I know what you're saying, and have no problem saying Yes, 100%, the mill rate went down, but overall taxes went up, so overall, it's not the great news that the OP seems to indicate :)
Author:  Fred D [ Fri Oct 01, 2010 1:56 pm ]
Post subject: 
of course, I'm just replying to the other replies...

I don't agree with the lovely picture painted by the OP either, but my main point was that assessments were way low to begin with (yes, based on the advancing pre-set assessment increases); consider the angle that perhaps we weren't paying enough over the past 3 yrs (tax rate wise, hance the decline in rate).
Also, considering the massive growth in this town over the past few years, of COURSE the overall tax levy will jump annually.

I have no problem with a 3.24 effective tax increase, given they reduced tax rates to get there, and that the effective difference between that and inflation is a mere 1.24% approx, which is $30-50/yr.

The problem is figuring out if it is being spent effectively. With all the complaints on here, you'd think not :) but then we keep re-electing the same head chief.
Ask anybody in HVE is they'd give you $30-50 out of their pocket today if that meant Derry road + CN bridge could be all done tomorrow, and I bet you'd get an overwhelming YES :)

I'm just presenting the other side of the other side
Author:  Fred D [ Fri Oct 01, 2010 1:58 pm ]
Post subject: 
Steve Heath wrote:
Quote:
Tax RATE computed as Tax/Assessed Value is down, but tax RATE computed as Tax/Purchase Price is up... um, so I guess they cancel out and there was no change in the tax rate :)


lol touche - nicely played.
And seriously, I laughed when I read the OP's post thinking how blatanty inside-jobby this post is - again, no offense to morningsunshine, whoever you are! :)
Author:  Annie [ Fri Oct 01, 2010 2:01 pm ]
Post subject: 
It's nice to know that someone out there is impressed with the Town and thinks they're doing a good job.

It reminds us not to be complacent about voting. After reading the posts here, you may be tempted to think change is a foregone conclusion but if we have enough people happy with the current council.... :shock:
I thought change was certain 4 years ago.

Get out and vote Milton :!: :)
Author:  JHAROUN [ Fri Oct 01, 2010 2:32 pm ]
Post subject: 
Question:

If bob spent 50k on builder upgrades to take their original house value from 350k to 400k (closing cost)

Bill spent 0k on builder upgrades, then spent 50k on upgrades after closing. Closing cost was 350k.

Bob and Bill have the same house on the same street.

Do they pay the same for property taxes?

I've got another scenario question after this one is answered.
Author:  colin b. [ Fri Oct 01, 2010 2:34 pm ]
Post subject: 
Thanks Annie and other posters.

Good comments from everyone. Also a question for candidates at the four all candidates meetings next week on what their priorities are for the future.

Here is how Milton stacks up compared to other GTA communities for 2010 mill rates. Also keep in mind that the other municipalities also have increasing assessments as well.

Sorry for the chart format it did not translate well from the original.
2010 RESIDENTIAL TAX RATES

TOWN/CITY MILL RATE X $ 300,000 % DIFFERENCE $ DIFFERENCE
(AVERAGE ASSESSMENT)

TORONTO .008305702 = $ 2,491.71

MILTON
RURAL .00834846 2,504.54 + .51 % + 12.83

URBAN .00878423 2,635.27 + 5.76 + 143.56

CALEDON .00969107 2,907.32 + 16.68 + 415.61

MISSISSAUGA .00982115 2,946.35 + 18.25 + 454.64

OAKVILLE .00982526 2,947.58 + 18.30 + 455.87

HALTON HILLS
RURAL .00960448 2,881.34 + 15.64 + 389.63

URBAN .00994659 2,983.98 + 19.76 + 492.27

BURLINGTON
RURAL .00980076 2,940.23 + 18.00 + 448.52

URBAN .01039739 3,119.22 + 25.18 + 627.51

BRAMPTON .01202267 3,606.80 + 44.75 + 1,115.09

FLAMBOROUGH .01319730 3,959.19 + 58.90 + 1,467.48

HAMILTON .01538147 4,614.44 + 85.19 + 2,122.73

OSHAWA .01704499 5,113.50 +105.22 + 2,621.79

PLEASE NOTE : MILL RATES ARE THE AREA TOTALS INCLUDING REGIONAL
AND EDUCATION TAX RATES.

THESE FIGURES CAN BE VERIFIED AT EACH MUNICIPALITY'S WEB SITE
OR FINANCE DEPARTMENT PHONE NUMBERS.

The reason for Toronto residential tax rate being so low is that their residential property tax rate is being subsidized by the highest commercial and industrial tax rates in the GTA.

Also Toronto is helped by the provincial GTA pooling which you and other residents in Halton, Peel, York and Durham regions are paying through your property taxes for Toronto social services which is being gradually uploaded to the Province by 2013.

Something else to think about when you vote on October 25th or the advance polls earlier (check www.milton.ca under election 2010).

Colin Best
Local & regional councillor
Candidate for Local & regional councillor
Wards 2,3,4,5. North of Derry road.
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