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I deleted this question, thank you all who had positive karm
http://www.hawthornevillager.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=33100		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Matt [ Thu Dec 23, 2010 4:32 pm ]
Post subject: 
I will try to get a name for you.
There are a lot of different circumstances that come into play here. Especially given the senior postion. Also, were you recruited away from another job to go there may be a factor towards severence.

I will try to update this soon with contact info for you.

Matt
Author:  AlphaMale [ Thu Dec 23, 2010 4:33 pm ]
Post subject: 
Try R. Brent Raby, Esq.: www.offmanraby.ca

There may be a clause in your work contract that states the company can terminate employment at any time. They can also say it's a re-structure.

Sorry to hear this happened. Good luck. It happened to me over a year ago (same shady reasons) and I still haven't found a full-time job yet.
Author:  B&B [ Thu Dec 23, 2010 5:24 pm ]
Post subject: 
Thanks AlphaMale for your referal. I am one-half of the B&B.

I do know an excellent labour lawyer and he's my husband, Brent Raby. We live in Milton and are "Villagers". Brent has actually acted on my behalf on two employment matters.

You're right, Matt on the inducement factor and there may be an age consideration as well.

Please feel free to PM Brent on this matter. Brent will not be in his office now until Wednesday 12/29 and you may want to know your position before that.

Regards,
Barbara
Author:  shawnrk1 [ Thu Dec 23, 2010 8:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: is anyone a labour lawyer? I would like your opinion,tha
terrikyle wrote:
is there a labour lawyer out there in this group who could tell me about a person's rights when "let go" from a company they were employed at for only 10 months (or so). Let go they are told for no reason other then the company cannot afford them anylonger???
Which does appear to be a problem at all.
Do you (a labour lawyer) think that more should be paid the legal 2 week severance in such a circumstance?
This was a corporate controller job...a senior job. All work place bonuses were paid throughout the year then suddenly this...right before Christmas.

So if you have read this far....and you're not a labour lawyer, do you of know one?


If only employed for 10 months (and normally the first couple are usually a probation period of some sort in the contract) I don't think you will be able to get much extra

In general the company would be out alot of money in that situation (especially if they hired you through a headhunter) in order to let you go in the half a year to one year period. Legally they are not even obligated to give you 2 weeks pay (see link below)

Unless there was something specific that you can use to back up a case for wrongful termination (race, sex, age, harassment etc)

Here is the ON law anyways just to give you an idea
http://www.labour.gov.on.ca/english/es/ ... nation.php

I'm not a lawyer but I play one on the internet!
Author:  shawnrk1 [ Thu Dec 23, 2010 8:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: thanks everyone
terrikyle wrote:
geez, my husband says there is nothing he can do. the company has crack lawyers. they neve loose a case. there was no employment contract.
my husband was not hired away from another company. at the time he was just unemployed after years being with another company for years.
that is not important. what I can't beleive is they just said "you're out of here" the week of Christmas. Clearly they did not want to pay for the stat holiday. Nice eh!
I realize that they are just an evil company. But geez, my husband generally knows about employment conditions like this. and he says there is not a thing that he can do.
I just want to get the company to pay a decent severance...the letter of the law is 1 week....thats it...sickening.

ok now I'm ranting...clearly my husband is handling this way better then me. :oops:


I don't believe the "never lost a case" part. I was skeptical of getting much extra but don't be that quick to throw in the towel
Author:  B&B [ Thu Dec 23, 2010 8:49 pm ]
Post subject: 
Well Shawn, I hope you don't believe in home dentistry.

There is a wonderful thing called the common law that overrides the Employment Standards Act.

The fact that Terrikyle doesn't have a written contract is a good thing, it means he's not limited to the Employment Standards Act termination pay.

Terrikyle, don't be cowed by the threat of crack lawyers. I deal with the Bay Street boys all the time and they are only too happy to settle once they realize I know your rights.

You haven't given me much to go on, but I'd say you're probably entitled to 2-3 months' notice.

If you want, call me on Wednesday and DO NOT sign a release.

Regards,
Brent
Author:  Matt [ Fri Dec 24, 2010 8:42 am ]
Post subject: 
Make sure your hubby does not sign anything. Go see a lawyer. Some may ask for a small retainer, others will do it for free and get paid on commision.

There must be more to the story then what they told your hubby. Being a corporate controller you think he would know if they could afford him or not. And not wanting to pay for 2 stats for Christmas and 1 stat for New Years does not fly with me. There must have been something else going on......
See a lawyer and know your rights! Most people do not stick up for themselves and just accept what they are offered, that is why companies offer the minimum they did.

Matt
Author:  B&B [ Fri Dec 24, 2010 10:47 am ]
Post subject: 
Just a general comment, and my opinion only, I wouldn't get too hung up on retainers and percentages for lawyers.
I think some people have the wrong impression of a truly good lawyer (in Canada anyway) and how they work, by seeing these high profile US lawyers like Robert Kardashian, Johnny Cochrane or Robert Shapiro making $$ millions.
In the US, unlike here, there are large damage awards where the lawyer takes 30% or that ridiculous McDonald's Restaurant award for hot coffee burns, where the lawyers benefited greatly.
There are hard-working local lawyers who often work with the Law Society of Upper Canada referral service to determine your rights and options. Once the facts are gathered, a good lawyer will go to the wall for their client. If they believe their client was wronged or treated unfairly, they will apply their knowledge and the strength of the law to administer justice.
As in family law, an abused, penniless spouse will get what is rightfully owed, often without the expectation of full payment on the lawyer's part. Often many hours are spent at home working on cases, hours which will never be billed.
Likewise in employment law, if an employee has been "fired", they should not fear calling a lawyer because they will be hit with a $5,000 retainer fee, which they don't have ... because they've lost their job!
I just want to put in a good word for those dedicated lawyers who only want justice to be served and don't make a lot of noise or millions of dollars.

Barbara
Author:  shawnrk1 [ Fri Dec 24, 2010 12:12 pm ]
Post subject: 
B&B wrote:
As in family law, an abused, penniless spouse will get what is rightfully owed, often without the expectation of full payment on the lawyer's part. Often many hours are spent at home working on cases, hours which will never be billed.
Likewise in employment law, if an employee has been "fired", they should not fear calling a lawyer because they will be hit with a $5,000 retainer fee, which they don't have ... because they've lost their job!


You make the average lawyer sound like a charity :lol:

The cost of lawyers may pay alot less here than the US but saying things like "lawyers wont bill every single minute" (they round up to nearest hour) or dont worry about paying retainers (since many lawyers take that even on cases that cant be won) is absurd

There is a balance to everything in life and you are far too optimistic

To OP it never hurts to speak to a lawyer and they are correct in saying the second your husband accepts a penny or signs papers he might be SOL at trying to get anything else from company but really do not believe any successful lawyer is working because they like you or believe in you.
Author:  B&B [ Fri Dec 24, 2010 1:20 pm ]
Post subject: 
Wow! Sounds like you've had a bad experience, shawnrk1.
Do you have anything positive to say amidst all the negativity, misquoting and misinformation. I've personally experienced the positive aspects to lawyering right here in Milton, and before I met my husband. I was not charged a retainer, I was not billed for every minute, every call because he believed in my case, which ended up being precedent-setting.
Perhaps this gentleman who sadly lost his job should depend on you, because as you say, "I'm not a lawyer but I play one on the internet!" This fellow needs an employment lawyer and sound advice.
This is not about playing, nor a game.

Merry Christmas!

Barbara
Author:  shawnrk1 [ Sat Dec 25, 2010 9:28 am ]
Post subject: 
Not negative at all (I think my comments are fairly neutral both ways)

I just know for a fact there is no way a walk in off the street could be hired as a controller (there are TONS of papers required to get that job, which is why I am puzzled at your idea the ESA can just be thrown out the window). Lucky for Canada our courts are not as quick to do things like that as our US counterparts. The mere fact he was employed less than 12 months tends to imply there is more to this story (either that OP doesn't wish to discuss or is unaware of) as the paperwork and costs involved in hiring a controller are far more than say a Walmart job.
Author:  Devious [ Sat Dec 25, 2010 10:42 am ]
Post subject: 
I'm guessing I'm going to side on the minority but really. A labour lawyer after only 11 months? I certainly feel for those guys that after 10+ years and in roles that are very difficult to find getting good compensation but really here..

Only 11 monts and a controller role. There are a bazillion of these around. Shrug. What kind of references does one expect to get when they fight tooth and nail when it hasn't worked out. Sometimes its just not a good fit and it takes more than probation to figure that out.

And 3 months pay for 11 months of service?? Sounds like extortion to me. Forget the big faceless company for a second -- if you owned a small business and hired a guy to run your financials and it took to a year end to realize he was over his head or just not what you were looking for -- you think it fair to pay 3 months of notice.
Author:  stilldeciding [ Sat Dec 25, 2010 1:01 pm ]
Post subject: 
shawnrk1 wrote:
B&B wrote:
As in family law, an abused, penniless spouse will get what is rightfully owed, often without the expectation of full payment on the lawyer's part. Often many hours are spent at home working on cases, hours which will never be billed.
Likewise in employment law, if an employee has been "fired", they should not fear calling a lawyer because they will be hit with a $5,000 retainer fee, which they don't have ... because they've lost their job!


You make the average lawyer sound like a charity :lol:

The cost of lawyers may pay alot less here than the US but saying things like "lawyers wont bill every single minute" (they round up to nearest hour) or dont worry about paying retainers (since many lawyers take that even on cases that cant be won) is absurd

There is a balance to everything in life and you are far too optimistic

To OP it never hurts to speak to a lawyer and they are correct in saying the second your husband accepts a penny or signs papers he might be SOL at trying to get anything else from company but really do not believe any successful lawyer is working because they like you or believe in you.


I personally have never known a lawyer who didn't charge for every call, photocopying, minute, etc. as per shown on your invoices when billed. Not all lawyers are creeps but I have to say when I was assessing people in the court holding cells during my days training as a counsellor I met several lawyers that were sleazier acting then the alleged offenders.
Mind you the lawyers trolling in the courthouse for clients and as duty counsel were not the cream of the bunch. :roll:
Author:  Richardv [ Sat Dec 25, 2010 3:07 pm ]
Post subject: 
2-4 weeks. 4 would be considered generous.
Author:  B&B [ Sat Dec 25, 2010 3:13 pm ]
Post subject: 
This is such a sad commentary. I never thought I'd be posting on Christmas Day, but can't let this go. The turkey is in the oven (my husband is cooking dinner, he's a talented cook, dedicated husband, wonderful father and faithful friend), unlike the creepy, sleazy lawyer type described.
He said to just let it go, but not only will I cite examples of my personal experiences (and subsequent settlements), here's one he handled recently.
Our neighbour lost his job as controller, after only 7 months service. He was given 2 weeks. Brent wrote one letter and he received an additional two months payment.
I was at an IT Consulting Company for less than 3 months, they downsized and Brent got me a total of 5 weeks.
I was at a software Company in Toronto and after only 13 months the Company was acquired and I received a 10-week continuous payroll payment with his legal firm.
I was knowledgeable of my rights and I took on Siebel Systems personally, a US $2.1B software Company, who downsized me after 1-1/2 years and offered me one month. I subsequently received 3 months and my laptop to keep.
I can go on, but unless you know what you're talking about, have experienced this before and are knowledgeable of your rights, entitlement and the factors taken into consideration in a settlement, (ie age, inducement, ability to get your next comparable job, the job market), or are an employment lawyer, please refrain from making uninformed comments.
That's why I am happy to be out of the Information Technology industry, too many ups and downs. In each and every instance of being let go, regardless of the reason or my tenure, I pursued my employer, engaged a good labour lawyer and won.

Barbara
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