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blown back insulation in attic resulting in water damage
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Author:  hve2010 [ Mon Jan 17, 2011 12:43 pm ]
Post subject:  blown back insulation in attic resulting in water damage
Last week I noticed water damage in the ceiling of my son's room. I called Mattamy and they came over to take a look at it.
They told me that it's due to home owners maintenance. We are supposed to check the attic when it's windy to ensure that the insulation has not been blown back. Apparently the water damage was due to to condensation since there was no insulation in that area. They told me that they would fix it this time. My house is only 7 month old. Is this normal? Should I be concerned with mold (my son has enough respiratory problems as it is with allergies and asthma)

Also, there is so much condensation on all my windows that I need a towel to soap up the water. Mattamy told me that my house is too humid. Is this common?

Any feedback for this first time buyer would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Author:  HaltonPeelHomeInspection [ Mon Jan 17, 2011 12:54 pm ]
Post subject: 
That's crap. There's no way you should have to check your attic after windy days. If the attic is properly finished, the insulation should not blow around.
Lot's of folks are having window condensation problems at this time of year. The first thing you need to do is buy a humidistat (Home Depot or sometimes The Dollar Store) to see what the humidity in your house actually is.

John Allingham, Professional Engineer
Owner & Certified Home Inspector
Halton-Peel Home Inspection
(416) 254-5869
inspect@peelhomeinspection.com
www.peelhomeinspection.com
Author:  Batman B [ Mon Jan 17, 2011 1:17 pm ]
Post subject: 
HaltonPeelHomeInspection wrote:
If the attic is properly finished, the insulation should not blow around.


Is this something you yourself check if someone hires you for the 30 day inspection?
Author:  Halton Home Inspector [ Mon Jan 17, 2011 1:41 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
hve2010 Posted:

Last week I noticed water damage in the ceiling of my son's room. I called Mattamy and they came over to take a look at it.
They told me that it's due to home owners maintenance. We are supposed to check the attic when it's windy to ensure that the insulation has not been blown back. Apparently the water damage was due to to condensation since there was no insulation in that area. They told me that they would fix it this time. My house is only 7 month old. Is this normal?

Also, there is so much condensation on all my windows that I need a towel to soap up the water. Mattamy told me that my house is too humid. Is this common?


I agree with John, that's crap, The person that told you this about your attic does not know the codes regarding this issue.

The Ontario Building Code specifically states that when loose fill insulation is used in homes with open soffits, that the builder is required to protect the loose fill from anything that may effect the R value of the insulation. This means that the builder is required to protect the insulation from wind getting into the soffits. See the rule below.

Quote:
Rule 9.25.2.4. Installation of Loose-Fill Insulation.
(6) Where soffit venting is used, measures shall be taken,
(b) to minimize air flow into the loose-fill insulation near the soffit vents to maintain the thermal performance of the material.


Homes that have exposed west and north walls are particularly susceptible to this common problem.

If the insulation has blown back into the attic, then the ceiling above that area will be cold and condensation will form on the ceiling. If left alone, the mold will also form.

As for excess moisture, who knows what the problem may be. You could have a blocked or missing dryer vent. You could have an HRV not installed properly, your exhaust fans may not be venting out the roof, etc.

The infrared picture below, taken in the winter, is where the insulation has blown back from the soffits in the attic. The dark area is cold because there is no insulation. Without infrared, this issue is invisible, but, over time the ceiling will dis-colour, and mold will likely form. This area will be cold in the winter and hot in the summer.

Image
Author:  Halton Home Inspector [ Mon Jan 17, 2011 1:49 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
RichardAndLiz Posted:

Is this something you yourself check if someone hires you for the 30 day inspection?


A problem like this may or may not be evident during a 30 day inspection because the problem may take a while to occur.

Other than wandering around your whole attic, which is NOT advisable, the best way to confirm that you do not have this problem, is to use an inspector that uses an Infrared Camera.

The reason I say this is because this issue is not allways visible from the attic hatch.
Author:  jambel [ Mon Jan 17, 2011 1:59 pm ]
Post subject: 
We had that exact problem in one spot in our attic. All the isnulation in an 8' x 4' section had been completely blown away. Tuns out that they forgot to install a dam. There is supposed to be a sheet of plywood installed to dam the area where your sofit is vented. That way the wind blows in and up over top of the insullation. Without the dam it blows the insulaltion away completely.
Author:  Danielle and Frank [ Mon Jan 17, 2011 2:10 pm ]
Post subject: 
We have this EXACT issue. With both the windows sweating excessively and insulation blown back from the soffit and this has led to mold on our master bedroom ceiling. We actually have our warranty manager (phase 14C) coming out to inspect it tomorrow.

Thanks to Andy (Halton Home Inspection), and his handy infrared camera, we knew about the insulation issue at our 1 year inspection. However, at that time, there was no mold on the ceiling and it was only this past weekend that we discovered how much of a problem it has now caused.

I'll post again after the Warranty manager inspects and let you know what he said.
Author:  HaltonPeelHomeInspection [ Mon Jan 17, 2011 2:35 pm ]
Post subject: 
Yes, I always look and frequently find blown back fiberglass insulation during 30day and 1 year inspections. Even more frequently I find insulation shortages.

John Allingham, Professional Engineer
Owner & Certified Home Inspector
Halton-Peel Home Inspection
(416) 254-5869
inspect@peelhomeinspection.com
www.peelhomeinspection.com
Author:  badger68 [ Mon Jan 17, 2011 6:45 pm ]
Post subject: 
In our last Mattamy we had this exact issue. The roof had a small ice dam on it and the water migrated back through the shingles. There was no waterproof membrane on that roof so it dripped right through. Most of it dribbled onto the insulation in the attic. Where the insulation had not been blown to (the perimeters of the attic) it hit bare wood and migrated right through it to the edges of the ceiling below. Mattamy didnt blow in the insulation properly on the install and the idiot who owned the house before us never had them fix anything on his 1 year or 2 year, so we inherited the problem.
Author:  Halton Home Inspector [ Mon Jan 17, 2011 7:20 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
badger68 Posted:

In our last Mattamy we had this exact issue. The roof had a small ice dam on it and the water migrated back through the shingles. There was no waterproof membrane on that roof so it dripped right through. Most of it dribbled onto the insulation in the attic. Where the insulation had not been blown to (the perimeters of the attic) it hit bare wood and migrated right through it to the edges of the ceiling below. Mattamy didnt blow in the insulation properly on the install and the idiot who owned the house before us never had them fix anything on his 1 year or 2 year, so we inherited the problem.


So,,, when you bought the home, were these issues brought to your attention during your pre-purchase home inspection?

Plus, 10 to 1 odds that your attic is short on insulation.
Author:  badger68 [ Mon Jan 17, 2011 8:17 pm ]
Post subject: 
Halton Home Inspector wrote:
Quote:
badger68 Posted:

In our last Mattamy we had this exact issue. The roof had a small ice dam on it and the water migrated back through the shingles. There was no waterproof membrane on that roof so it dripped right through. Most of it dribbled onto the insulation in the attic. Where the insulation had not been blown to (the perimeters of the attic) it hit bare wood and migrated right through it to the edges of the ceiling below. Mattamy didnt blow in the insulation properly on the install and the idiot who owned the house before us never had them fix anything on his 1 year or 2 year, so we inherited the problem.


So,,, when you bought the home, were these issues brought to your attention during your pre-purchase home inspection?

Plus, 10 to 1 odds that your attic is short on insulation.


I think it was slightly low on insulation as well. That was something that our home inspector missed along with the insulation not continuing to the edges at proper depth. He caught almost everything else so I cannot fault him overall. thankfully it ended up being easy to fix and I did it myself.
Author:  Linda [ Mon Jan 17, 2011 8:31 pm ]
Post subject: 
I also used Andy Shaw for my 30-day and my one-year inspection and on both occasions he found that the insulation had blown back. They obviously didn't put enough insulation after my 30-day inspection since it recurred. My gripe with Mattamy on this matter is that when they saw it on my list, they tried to imply that I had done something to cause the blowback and that it couldn't have recurred if they already fixed it at the 30-day, as if I was up in my attic on a regular basis pushing the insulation to the middle of the house as a hobby. They gave me a really hard time before they would come fix it.

(And then to make the matter worst, when they did come nearly three months after the other one-year issues had been addressed, the insulation guys wanted to wear their muddy work boots on my white carpeting. I couldn't believe they were actually surprised when I said I wouldn't allow that. Really? I get that they need to wear safety shoes while walking around the attic but they could certainly have a pair of inside safety boots—Andy had slippers when he was inside my house—or they could've worn the plastic booties as delivery people did when they brought my mattress, or even laid down plastic sheets over the areas they were going to be walking around as my friend's furnace guy did.)
Author:  Danielle and Frank [ Tue Jan 18, 2011 7:05 pm ]
Post subject: 
So we had our ceiling inspected today and were told that it was basically a "FAVOUR" that they were fixing it for us as it's not a warrantable issue. Especially because our house is open at the back (we back onto a storm water management pond). We were told to check it after really windy days. Luckily, our home inspector stopped by while the warranty manager was here, and they had a sort of debate about the issue being warrantable. Ontario Building Code does support that it should be warrantable....and Tarion seems to agree.

Anyway.....our insulation was properly placed and the hopefully it won't happen again....now we have to wait for someone to come by and spray our ceiling with some type of bleach solution to get rid of the mold spots.
Author:  Richardv [ Tue Jan 18, 2011 9:30 pm ]
Post subject: 
Welcome to Mattamy customer service!
Author:  oakvillehomes [ Wed Jan 19, 2011 7:28 pm ]
Post subject:  New Mattamy upgrade
This may be a new cash cow for Mattamy Homes. For the discerning homeowner - an attic installed webcam so that you can monitor the movement of your insulation - even from your Blackberry. An upgrade to this will be a fan that you can use a joystick to move and blow back the offending insulation.

Hmmmm, maybe I should get in the ground floor on this as it appears it is a problem that Mattamy builds into its homes. :wink:
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