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PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 8:23 pm 
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Something else is kind of bothering me. Freemantrailfamily whats with all the cheap shots? If you take issue with anything I've said I would encourage you to address me directly instead of making pointed comments.

Examples -

I was having a bit of fun on the thread and said.

Quote:
I've argued against the Velodrome ad nauseum. I am resigned to the fact that we are getting one and I am just waiting for the day I can say I told you so to anyone who supports this inevitable disaster. Perhaps that'll be my campaign slogan if I ever run for city council, "Vote 4 VCola, he told you so!"


Burried in the bottom of one of your posts you wrote.

Quote:
Being a naysayer is fine but I'd rather offer constructive comments to hopefully maximize the success of this project that's going ahead naysayers or not. Sitting on the sidelines saying "I told you so" on a project that's not going to get canned (and would involve financial penalties at this point if it was I believe) accomplished nothing.


Later I made the case that conventional rec / community centres would better serve the local residents:

Quote:
You bring up the examples of swim meets and special ice events. I would argue that if the town of Milton were to invest in conventional recreation facilities as opposed to the Velodrome then we wouldn't see those cancellations so frequently. One of the things I have brought up repeatedly is the fact that Milton does not have enough facilities to meet the demand of the residents. I've brought up the example time and time again about parents waking up at the crack of dawn so they can sit by their computer, in the hopes of registering their child for a swim class. Many of those children get turned away because there simply aren't enough pools in Milton. With the cost of the Velodrome (minus the legacy fund, federal funding, yada yada yada) the town could built one or two rec / community centres and alleviate some of the registration whoas people are now experiencing.

I for one would feel better about having my weekly hockey game cancelled if I knew it was because Little Johnny from down the street and his buddies were playing for their hockey championship. I don't mind giving up my spot for local kids. Cancellations at the Velodrome however would mean I don't get to play hockey because some quasy pro cyclist from the other side of Canada wants to compete in a cycling championship. Do we even have a single competitor from Milton that would participate in one of these "world class events"? This goes back to the Velodrome being a pet project for special interest groups, many of them not local. I oppose the Velodrome because it does not serve the local population.


In return, without addressing me you wrote:

Quote:
and yes, I actually even know a few locals who are down-right giddy about riding at the velodrome and will be lining up for memberships.


Its quite obvious we have vastly different opinions about the Velodrome but do we need to get all school yard about it? Can't we debate like adults without the little digs?


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 8:48 pm 
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I agree Martin but the $40 million amount was a pig in the poke quoted low likely for upper government political optics. I'm slowly learning some of the convulated way things progress. There wasn't a lot of confidence in that original 40 number in my personal opinion and that's why the town wanted to protect itself from million dollar increases. But you also have to remember the town doesnt want to either embarrass or build any anomosity with the upper level of governments. That the town can deliver and work well with both the province and federal levels have allowed the town to do some creative and great things for our community with multi level partnerships. For those partnerships to work there has to be some mutual trust and respect while we safeguard ourselves at the same time. The town does a good job in building relationships at different tiers of government.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 10:54 pm 
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Rick Di Lorenzo wrote:
Thats why the town looked to safeguard itself financially so if costs go up by millions its not the town that would be on the hook for the extra 16 million.

The town's portion of the costs are capped. Be it $40 million or $56 million or $100 million.

Champion wrote:
The federal government will invest $38.4 million while the Town’s capital contribution to the construction of the velodrome will be capped off at $17.6 million.

So tell me Rick, if this things goes to $65-75 million as I suspect it will. Who will make up the difference ? The Feds have stated that they will not contribute more than the $500 million they have already committed to these games. The province is broke, and they have stated there is no more money for the games. We will probably see a new Provincial Government come the spring, do you think they will take tax payers money that is in short supply and spend it on these games that were a Liberal initiative ? Do you really believe whichever party wins the next election will honor the promises and commitments made by this government, considering the serious financial crisis this province is in ? The aquatic facility is already $ 100 million dollars over budget, the equestrian site in Palgrave as well as the canoeing- kayaking site in Welland are both going over budget despite work just commencing. So who is going to make up these shortfalls ?? I am asking but nobodies answering so I thought you might have the answer. Also can you explain to me how the legacy funding is going to work and how much of that fund Milton will be receiving ? You have stated you never believed the $ 40 million figure yet you never questionned it when it came before council, the TO2015 committee deliberately mislead us on the $ 40 million construction costs, what makes you think they are not misleading us on everything else as well. ( would like to say lying but that wouldn't be appropiate for the kinder gentler me )

Rick Malboeuf
Councillor Ward 4


Last edited by Rick Malboeuf on Sat Nov 17, 2012 1:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 11:24 pm 
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VCola, wasn't really directing those comments specifically at you. You are hardly the only naysayer against the velodrome, particularly on this forum. It was simply an expression of frustration at that particular moment in time. As I've said, this isn't something that's given me a warm, fuzzy feeling but I do see positive benefit and I don't personally believe it will inevitably be a disaster as many think it will.

The giddy comment was actually more a little dig at Rick M because I know his sense of humour. But in all seriousness I know a couple down the street from me who are avid recreational cyclists and are genuinely thrilled that they won't have to drive to London.

Regarding the campus, you are correct - a velodrome is not a pre-requisite for a university. It doesn't NEED to be there to attract the campus. What I'm getting at is I think a key to any form of long term viability for the velodrome is Milton getting the campus because:
1) It will make Milton a more attractive place for athletes who may use the velodrome to choose it as a training location because they could also be pursuing a higher education at the same time.
2) With it being designed as a multi-use recreational facility, part of the business case is operational cost-sharing with the university. Good for the Milton tax base.
3) No Milton doesn't have elite track cyclists but no doubt having access to a world class facility will make that far more likely. Winnipeg produced greats in speed skating and cycling because they had what were world class local training facilities in their day. They don't anymore because those facilities weren't maintained or torn down. LA has a great junior development program. That will happen here too. We won't be producing Olympic divers or syncronized swimmers any time soon either because we don't have those facilities - though you never know, Travis Gerrits got his start in Trampoline at Springers Gymnastics then got into Aerials Skiing by building ramps in his back yard and Kelso, but of course now trains in Quebec at world-class facilities there. I'm pretty sure we wouldn't have the Milton Marlins producing a load of elite swimmers if the town hadn't built the Leisure Center pool, and the certainly wouldn't be hosting provincial level swim meets if the town hadn't made the decision to go with a full 8 lane competition pool at the Sports Center.

And also if you go back to previous posts on this subject, the development charge money that's been allocated for the velodrome was for gymnasium space. The town actually gets more physical gymnasium space in the velodrome infield than they would have got for the same amount of dollars in a standard community center. So it's not like the town is using money for future pools to pay for this. It's just the next community center won't have gymnasium space - there will be three of them at the velodrome. And, from the presentations I've seen many of the gymnasium sports are very compatible with the velodrome because they use different times of the day.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 8:34 am 
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Interesting Champion front page article on the velodrome.

Love this quote:

Quote:
After the announcement, Krantz told the Champion the day solidifies the “grunt work” the councillors and Town staff have been doing to get the project moving forward over the last year and a half.

He said when the first sod is turned and construction gets underway in February of next year, that’s when it will really start to feel real.

“It’s kind of neat to see all of this come together and the significance of it too,” he said. “It puts us on the international stage is what it does and that’s what a community is all about, especially in these economic times. We truly are in a global economy so we’re making the rest of the world aware that we’re here, we’re open and we’re doing business.”


Nothing says open for business like building an economically useless white elephant.


One thing that I am quite happy about is that the opening of the velodrome coincides very nicely with regional elections.

If someone wanted to do so, it would be very easy to build momentum to vote out every member of the regional government who voted for this embarrassment.

Just imagine something for a minute. With what is spent on lawn signs for one person's campaign, one could corner the seo and ppc market so every single time someone googled something with "Milton" in it, calls to vote out the "forward thinking" people currently running Milton came up.

Tied together with some facebook and twitter campaigns.

Now, imagine that for the next 2 years.

Good luck with the re-elections folks.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 9:10 am 
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Stuck here wrote
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If someone wanted to do so, it would be very easy to build momentum to vote out every member of the regional government who voted for this embarrassment.


It was not the Regional Government that voted for this but 9 members of our Local Milton Council. We can't blame the Region for this.

Rick Malboeuf
Councillor Ward 4


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 9:16 am 
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Just came back from my time machine. We're all gonna regret this in 10 years...

Like seriously, why does the town need this... Even if it was free, and all we had to pay was the yearly operating costs Id say pass...

Image


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 9:30 am 
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Rick Malboeuf wrote:
Stuck here wrote
Quote:
If someone wanted to do so, it would be very easy to build momentum to vote out every member of the regional government who voted for this embarrassment.


It was not the Regional Government that voted for this but 9 members of our Local Milton Council. We can't blame the Region for this.

Rick Malboeuf
Councillor Ward 4


Whoops. I was looking at the municipal election details (October 27, 2014) but mistakenly typed regional rather than municipal here.

Anyways, I'll put $500 into pool to pay for a seo/social media/ppc campaign to make sure everyone who googles Milton knows that the residents are against this.

I don't think it would be too hard to raise funds for this campaign, most people in Milton don't even know that tens of millions of dollars are being mismanaged in this way.

No one reads the champion, and only a small percentage are here. But everyone uses google and facebook.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 9:44 am 
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Wish I had a time machine so it would be built so I could dust off my track bike and start riding.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 10:54 am 
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RichardTNC wrote:
Just came back from my time machine. We're all gonna regret this in 10 years...

Like seriously, why does the town need this... Even if it was free, and all we had to pay was the yearly operating costs Id say pass...


http://timetraveler.ytmnd.com/

Thank JHVH for brave men like you.

Can you tell us if Tony was re-elected?


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 1:14 pm 
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VOTE 4 VCola! He told you so!


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 2:01 pm 
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RichardTNC wrote:
Like seriously, why does the town need this... Even if it was free, and all we had to pay was the yearly operating costs Id say pass...


Because building plain old libraries and hockey rinks doesn’t earn you props from other government funded agencies that give awards for spending tax dollars on things like this.

I’m looking forward to the day when a future Miltonian wins gold because he had open access to a top notch training facility.

Athlete: “Thank you Mayor Krantz, I couldn’t have done this without your vision around the Velodrome”
Mayor Krantz: “I know, right?! And to think some people said this would be a waste of money! The fools! I mean, take one look at that shiny medal and tell me it wasn’t worth 57 million dollars! Is there anything else I can do for you?”
Athlete: “Yes, my mother’s on a waiting list for cancer treatment and might die if she doesn’t get treatment soon. Can you help?”
Mayor Krantz: “Sorry kid, the new hospital was delayed again and we simply don’t have the beds. Provincial budget cuts and all. You understand, right?”


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 2:15 pm 
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Location: Milton
God for this amount of money we could have had a decent hospital


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 2:23 pm 
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avonannie wrote:
God for this amount of money we could have had a decent hospital

quick! edit this out before someone pipes in and says 'You can't use the money allocated for this on the hospital"

Remove it and I'll edit mine too...hurry!


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 3:08 pm 
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avonannie wrote:
God for this amount of money we could have had a decent hospital


The centre space that is the size of 3 basketball courts will make a great triage space for a contagion style outbreak.

Maybe a zoo one day too.


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