HawthorneVillager.com

Hi all:

I am just wondering if anyone knows what is going on off 4th line, on the west side, just above the gas pipeline?? I noticed the bulldozers in there the other day working up the soil. I remember they wanted to build apartments in there and people campaigned against those... so what is the deal now?? Just wondering?

Hi Hvhomeowner
The bulldozers are doing the initial site work for the approved Summerwood Estates which was approved in December for 193 homes (apartments still have to be approved later) with an entrance off 4th Line and Derry Road ( future fourth way intersection just west of the creek channel with stoplights to come) You should be seeing a sales office opening in the next few months. (takes about a year from site work to house completions)
Colin Best
Local & Regional Councillor
Wards 2 & 4.

Is this a new intersection they will be creating? Or are they removing the median to prevent westbound drivers to turn south on fourth line and creating the intersection there?

Colin, can you tell me what the logic was in closing the existing fourth line and moving the traffic farther east to the new James Snow, and opening a new fourth line west of the existing one? Why not just leave the existing fourth line as the primary north/south 401 road and upgrade it?

I mean, the shortest distance between two points is a straight line, which is what the first fourth line was, the fastest, best way to get from Derry to the 401. Now with the new JSP we have to fight traffic heading east to turn around and backtrack by going northwest on a curvy road, or go up Thompson and then along Main, which is choked with stoplights (and construction and trains, although someday that will go away).

Why construction is always in winter and why they are keeping on doing same roads over and over again.
Because, they are paid more for it, compare if they do it on time, once and straight.

I believe this is the report http://www.milton.ca/execserv/agendas20 ... Report.pdf

Thanks hvillager, you can see the future intersection about 200 metres west of 4th line where the centre median is open and there is no curbs on the north and south sides of Derry. This is where an extension of Ferguson Drive will come out and meet the north-south street linking the Valeri Homes area (you can see there map when their sales office opens in a few weeks) also check milton.ca under official plan Bristol survey map you can see the future roads and also on the Milton trails maps shows where Laurier Ave. links up with Croft.

Steve, 4th line was never intended to be a major thoroughfare as the traffic would be too much for the area and would need all the trees along both sides removed and have people fronting on a 4-7 lane expressway similar to Erin Mills Parkway.

The long term plans for James Snow Parkway is to become the major north south road for the east side of Milton, just as Tremaine Road will be on the west side (check zoning maps under milton.ca) think Highway #410 Brampton in the future as James Snow is to link up with Britannia Road later this year and eventually Highway #407 interchange at Neyagawa Blvd in Oakville and seperate the residential areas from the Phase 2 employment and industrial areas on the east side of town which should begin servicing in about 3-5 years as the #401 industrial park is built out (major announcements soon).

You may want to ask former and current councillors who decided to close 4th line prematurely in March 2005, since the Region owned the right of way where they are building now since September 2004 and the project was in the 2003 Regional Budget to be completed in 2005! The road could have remained open until later in 2006 before the final underpass work was finished.

I am checking with regional staff and contractor every month to make sure the 2 lane portion will be open by the contract date of July 31st this year so the Town can finish the widening of Thompson Road between Derry and Main Street including advanced left hand turn signals. The four lanes of James Snow Parkway from Main to Waldie Ave. should be done by November.

The sidewalks on Derry should be completed later this spring after the frost is out of the ground as well as traffic signals at Miller/Armstrong and Derry and Holly Ave.
Colin Best
Local & Regional Councillor
Wards 2 & 4.

Thanks Colin, your presence and willingness to always answer us is always appreciated.

colin b,

Thanks for the information. I find myself coming here to look up your posts for info more than I go to the town website!

Another question, am I to understand that the Summerwood development has been approved for max. 5 storey buildings or is this up for debate. Further, if they have been approved, are these structures going to be condos or apartments?

Hi hvillager
Yes the Summerwood Estates has draft plan approval for two 5 storey buildings and two four storey buildings (see page 10 of the above report) for a total of 241 condominium apartment units pending servicing and several other approvals later this year for 2008 construction.

These buildings will be similar to the new Maple & Main Street condominium apartments and several other complexs on Upper Middle Road in Oakville and Burlington. The Valeri Homes buildings to be built to the north of Derry Road are planned to be a similar style in the center of their development. I have appraised units in several complexs around the area with the majority of the residents being seniors and young couples and singles.

The Town Official Plan and zoning by-laws restricts the height of new buildings to seven floors to prevent high rises from obscuring the views of the escarpment.
Colin Best
Local & Regional Councillor
Wards 2 & 4.
ps. the only builder who is building rental apartments is CMHC and Housing Authority's.

Thanks Colin, for your quick response to my question! Your knowledge is much appreciated, and I have learned a lot from your postings about local issues.

Hi Bruno
You can get more information on builder's contact names from the planning department or else type in their names for their web addresses which most major builders have now.

Understand your concerns, interesting to note the letter to the editor from the sustainable committee chair in Mississauga calling Milton low density residential!

The density Mattamy and other builders in Milton are building is between 12-14 homes per acre on average which is higher than what the Province is projecting in the Places to Grow Legislation that means the average lot is 36' x 86' or less with the new Main Street townhouses and other developments, the densities will be even higher.

There are nine builders currently building in Milton at present most of them advertise in the Saturday papers as well as the New Homes magazine which are in those yellow boxes by real estate offices and newspaper stands.

Check out the ads for Royal Park Homes they have been advertising for over 6 months now of a sales office in Milton Heights for homes at 3rd Sideroad and Peru Road. Just to let everyone know they have not even filed a rezoning application yet! (ps. the sales office does not exist and residents and the planning staff are getting aggrevated about people asking about it.)
Colin Best
Local & Regional Councillor
Wards 2 & 4.

Don't forget about Bob M's community meeting on Wednesday March 28th from 7-9 pm at the Milton Police Station at Childs and Ontario Street where we can discuss these and other issues.

Actually I think it was a bone-headed idea as well. AT LEAST they could have kept it open till the new James Snow was ready. Wasn't too bright in my opinion to take away one of the few accesses to the 401. That caused a lot of extra east/west traffic in my opinion. Oh well what's done is done, at least the darn thing will FINALLY be open this summer (let's hope).

Thinking about it first is what I am complaining the town didn't do. Since I'm talking the planning stages, then obviously I am saying the town would not have allowed the builder to build a bunch of homes with a four foot front yard facing fourth line, not saying "hey, now that the homes are there, let's make it a highway, duh". The few existing houses that were on 4th line could easily handle the increased traffic since there were no traffic impediments other than the railway line and presumably the roads would get widened to four lanes. Since the town has no problems at all with existing houses on Thompson road being left facing it and having to deal with four lanes of traffic, I can't see why that would be an issue in this case.

As for a straight line being the shortest distance, well, if minimizing driving time is not enough of an argument as to how planning should be done, how about we think of some additional results of the change in the roadway. The increased distance means increased travel time, multiplied by the number of travellers that use the route each day. That also means increased gas usage, multipled by the number of travellers that use the route each day, and increased air pollution, again in aggregate. In addition, the longer routes (either Thompson or JSP) mean that there are a greater number of stoplights, which increases air pollution from the idling cars as well as once again increasing the length of time of the average commute... not to mention that these routes, such as Main Street and Derry, have had their traditional speed limits of 80km/h ratcheted downward multiple times, FURTHER increasing the commute time for everyone.

Take a look at Mississauga. They have a number of artery roads which coincide with thier highway stops. Winston Churchill Parkway... straight south all the way to the lake from the highway. Erin Mills/Mississauga Road... straight south to the QEW where it goes wonky as heck. Highway 10? Straight again... same with Dixie and the 427.

Yes, NOW it is too late to change things, and the way things are now the JSP is the best option, but it wasn't at the time when plans were being made.

Points well made Steve.