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PostPosted: Wed Dec 18, 2013 8:09 pm 
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Location: Southbury - HV 15C - Jan 2009
I am having hot water issues again ... last year when I had similar issues, I was told by people here that the mixing valve is the culprit. when I got it replaced, the issues went away, however, similar problem has now reoccurred. When I am in shower or keep a tap on for a bit long, then the water becomes luke warm.

My furnace utilizes hot water to heat the house, so the hot water tank is performing dual function. Thinking that the mixing valve would have gone bad again, I replaced the mixing valve again (spent approx $250 - parts/labor), but it didn't help! Then I called Reliance as I am renting the HWT from them, and the guy came in and measured the temperature of the water leaving the tank, and it was perfect - so he said not much he can do about it. The tank is working as it should.

I have put the HWT setting to MAX HOT. Some times the water is nice and hot, but then it becomes luke warm and no I am not over using the water to run out the hot water ... it just becomes luke warm in few minutes of turning the hot water tap on.

I am not sure what to do :( I am really out of options that I could have thought of - any ideas? Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

EDIT: There are two pipes coming out of the HWT. One is hot, and one is cold. The hot pipe is very hot that goes into the mixing valve's (H), which is also connected to the cold water (C) - the mixed side is luke wam most of the time. I have put the mixing valve at full hot.

The Cold water pipe that comes out of (or goes into) the HWT some times is very cold, and some times is very hot.

I showed that to the Reliance guy, and he said it is normal. As soon as you open the hot water tap it will become cold again as the hot water sometimes travel up on the cold water pipe. It didn't sound right to me, but it became cold when the hot water tap was turned on for a bit. As soon as he closed the tap, the pipe became hot again.

Not sure if that is the problem.

PS: I have read both the threads about hot water issues on the main page, and have done most of the things people suggested, but with no luck yet.

This one:
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=58251

And This one:
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=58290

EDITED on Jan 1, 2014: The problem has been resolved. I called reliance again, and an experienced gentleman showed up this time. He looked at the system, and said the problem is with the hot water pipe that feeds the furnace. He said in these kinds of system most of the time the furnace coil feeds back the cold water via the hot water pipe into the HWT, which causes the water to become luke warm as it is connected right at the spot where the mixing valve is connected. He cut the rubber pipe and installed a "check valve", and immediately the water turned from luke warm to hot again. It has been over two weeks now, and hot water has been fantastic and we've had no problems with it. Problem solved.


Last edited by rino on Wed Jan 01, 2014 6:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Hot water issues
PostPosted: Thu Dec 19, 2013 8:40 am 
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I had some issues with my mixing valve before. What I did that is to find the exact mx valve, which is made by the same manufacture, it is a little bit expansive but all the fittings are good. I only need is to replace the mx valve myself and there is no need to hire a plumber. In your case, if it is true that the mx valve is bad, you just need to find that exact valve and replace it, which should be the price of mx valve only. hope this solve your issue.


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 Post subject: Re: Hot water issues
PostPosted: Thu Dec 19, 2013 10:10 am 
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Location: Southbury - HV 15C - Jan 2009
Thanks for your response Mike. I had replaced the original mixing value last year with the one that they sell in Home Depot i.e. Honeywell Mixing Valve AM-01. This year, I replaced it with the exact same Honeywell Mixing Valve, but with no luck. The Mixing valve has been changed two days ago, but I am still having the same issue. Not sure what else could be wrong that I need to look at.


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 Post subject: Re: Hot water issues
PostPosted: Thu Dec 19, 2013 11:19 am 
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Joined: Mon Feb 09, 2009 11:26 am
Posts: 2766
Location: Milton, Ontario
That's really puzzling and I don't have the answer.
The technician was correct though that the cold water inlet pipe will get hot because heat migrates up it from the tank.
I guess I'm lucky I don't have a mixing valve.

John Allingham
Owner & Certified Home Inspector
Halton-Peel Home Inspection
(416) 254-5869
inspect@peelhomeinspection.com
http://www.peelhomeinspection.com


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 Post subject: Re: Hot water issues
PostPosted: Thu Dec 19, 2013 4:07 pm 
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Location: Southbury - HV 15C - Jan 2009
I was thinking of getting rid of the mixing valve, but I have two toddlers at home (3 & 4), and I am afraid that they may accidentally get burnt, which is the reason I have to stick with a mixing valve. Recently we have increased our heat setting at home due to the cold weather we've been getting and the room on top of the garage is the coldest area ... so you think that may have something to do in the drop in the temperature of the water to become luke warm instead of hot? If that is the case, then I may just get a portable heater for that room, and drop the temperature in the house.


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 Post subject: Re: Hot water issues
PostPosted: Thu Dec 19, 2013 5:09 pm 
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Location: Milton
rino wrote:
I was thinking of getting rid of the mixing valve, but I have two toddlers at home (3 & 4), and I am afraid that they may accidentally get burnt, which is the reason I have to stick with a mixing valve. Recently we have increased our heat setting at home due to the cold weather we've been getting and the room on top of the garage is the coldest area ... so you think that may have something to do in the drop in the temperature of the water to become luke warm instead of hot? If that is the case, then I may just get a portable heater for that room, and drop the temperature in the house.


If your avatar is relevant then you are in a 2 story townhome with a hi velocity type heating system. Mattamy stopped installing those heating systems in 2 story towns some time ago so I will assume your home is 3 to 5 years old.

Sorry I can't help with the hot water issue because frankly, I'm stumped. The only thing I can think of is that your water heater has an intermittent problem. This may explain why the reliance tech found no problem and even with an intermittent problem the thermostat would run the system until the house reaches the desired temp.

Front bedrooms over garages are often cooler than other rooms but there are contributing factors that can make matters worse than they should.

1 - The "air return" in that room should be close to the floor, not high up on the wall like the other one(s) on the second floor. If it is high up on the wall then it pulls out the warm air in that room and leaves the cool air at the floor.

2 - Heaven forbid I say this because some on the forum get their underwear in a knot - but Mattamy has had their fair share of attics that where short on insulation and other insulation issues where it gets blown around in attic leaving large voids with no insulation at all. While these problems have improved in the last year or so, they were almost chronic at one time.

3 - As silly as this sounds check that the carpet installers did not cover one of the floor vents. Just feel the floor along the front wall.

Having said that, some of these front rooms in these 2 story towns are just cold. A couple times, even after the obvious problems were resolved they were still on the chilly side.

Anyways, good luck trying to figure this out.

_________________
For Home Inspection services call Andy Shaw at Halton Home Inspection Service. 905 876 4761


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 Post subject: Re: Hot water issues
PostPosted: Wed Jan 01, 2014 6:49 pm 
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Location: Southbury - HV 15C - Jan 2009
Thanks Andy for the tips. I am having major issues with heating in that room, and I have posted another thread for it. Your point about the air return duct - you are correct, the air return duct is on the wall. Not sure if I can do much at this point ... the house is over 5 years old now ... and is way out of warranty. To make things worst, the air return duct is getting blocked by piece of furniture - I'll move the furniture today to see if it helps. I had always thought that air return was for heat return only, and it doesn't have anything to do with the cold air.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 01, 2014 7:27 pm 
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Joined: Mon Feb 09, 2009 11:26 am
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Location: Milton, Ontario
rino wrote:
I am having hot water issues again ... last year when I had similar issues, I was told by people here that the mixing valve is the culprit. when I got it replaced, the issues went away, however, similar problem has now reoccurred. When I am in shower or keep a tap on for a bit long, then the water becomes luke warm.

My furnace utilizes hot water to heat the house, so the hot water tank is performing dual function. Thinking that the mixing valve would have gone bad again, I replaced the mixing valve again (spent approx $250 - parts/labor), but it didn't help! Then I called Reliance as I am renting the HWT from them, and the guy came in and measured the temperature of the water leaving the tank, and it was perfect - so he said not much he can do about it. The tank is working as it should.

I have put the HWT setting to MAX HOT. Some times the water is nice and hot, but then it becomes luke warm and no I am not over using the water to run out the hot water ... it just becomes luke warm in few minutes of turning the hot water tap on.

I am not sure what to do :( I am really out of options that I could have thought of - any ideas? Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

EDIT: There are two pipes coming out of the HWT. One is hot, and one is cold. The hot pipe is very hot that goes into the mixing valve's (H), which is also connected to the cold water (C) - the mixed side is luke wam most of the time. I have put the mixing valve at full hot.

The Cold water pipe that comes out of (or goes into) the HWT some times is very cold, and some times is very hot.

I showed that to the Reliance guy, and he said it is normal. As soon as you open the hot water tap it will become cold again as the hot water sometimes travel up on the cold water pipe. It didn't sound right to me, but it became cold when the hot water tap was turned on for a bit. As soon as he closed the tap, the pipe became hot again.

Not sure if that is the problem.

PS: I have read both the threads about hot water issues on the main page, and have done most of the things people suggested, but with no luck yet.

This one:
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=58251

And This one:
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=58290

EDITED on Jan 1, 2014: The problem has been resolved. I called reliance again, and an experienced gentleman showed up this time. He looked at the system, and said the problem is with the hot water pipe that feeds the furnace. He said in these kinds of system most of the time the furnace coil feeds back the cold water via the hot water pipe into the HWT, which causes the water to become luke warm as it is connected right at the spot where the mixing valve is connected. He cut the rubber pipe and installed a "check valve", and immediately the water turned from luke warm to hot again. It has been over two weeks now, and hot water has been fantastic and we've had no problems with it. Problem solved.


Nice. I'm just wondering why this hasn't been an issue in previous winters.

John Allingham
Owner & Certified Home Inspector
Halton-Peel Home Inspection
(416) 254-5869
inspect@peelhomeinspection.com
http://www.peelhomeinspection.com


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 03, 2014 11:37 am 
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Posts: 335
It could be the -18 degrees with added wind chill this year vs the relatively mild winters for the last 2 -3 years.......


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 03, 2014 1:08 pm 
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Joined: Mon Feb 09, 2009 11:26 am
Posts: 2766
Location: Milton, Ontario
AB wrote:
It could be the -18 degrees with added wind chill this year vs the relatively mild winters for the last 2 -3 years.......



Don't think so. The first post was December 18, well before our cold snap.

John Allingham
Owner & Certified Home Inspector
Halton-Peel Home Inspection
(416) 254-5869
inspect@peelhomeinspection.com
http://www.peelhomeinspection.com


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 8:49 am 
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Posts: 120
Glad to hear your news although I write this little bit late. My problem before was kind of similar to yours but different. My water tank used to have a check valve. For about 5 year usage, it had lots of water scaling and cause the valve not reliable. After complaining to reliance, the technician remove the valve. Since then the hot water start to come into cold water pipe. Long story short, I replace the same MX valve and found out the old one installed by Mattamey did not have check valve and the new one I bought ( Cost 120 but it is plug & play) do have check valve and hot water only go through hot water pipe. It is fun to detect & try to avoid being gouged with huge charge bill. But I don't know the one you bought have check valve or not.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 9:06 am 
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Joined: Fri Apr 25, 2008 1:35 pm
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Location: Southbury - HV 15C - Jan 2009
mike_milton wrote:
Glad to hear your news although I write this little bit late. My problem before was kind of similar to yours but different. My water tank used to have a check valve. For about 5 year usage, it had lots of water scaling and cause the valve not reliable. After complaining to reliance, the technician remove the valve. Since then the hot water start to come into cold water pipe. Long story short, I replace the same MX valve and found out the old one installed by Mattamey did not have check valve and the new one I bought ( Cost 120 but it is plug & play) do have check valve and hot water only go through hot water pipe. It is fun to detect & try to avoid being gouged with huge charge bill. But I don't know the one you bought have check valve or not.


I bought the MX Valve from Home Depot - it is Honeywell brand and costs around $100, but I don't know if it has a built in check valve.

HaltonPeelHomeInspection wrote:
Nice. I'm just wondering why this hasn't been an issue in previous winters.


The reliance guy said ... my furnace do have a check valve, but after some usage, they become useless ... so this additional check valve should do the trick, and if it happens again in future, be sure to have the check valve replaced as the first thing.


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PostPosted: Fri May 22, 2015 6:20 pm 
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rino wrote:
I am having hot water issues again ... last year when I had similar issues, I was told by people here that the mixing valve is the culprit. when I got it replaced, the issues went away, however, similar problem has now reoccurred. When I am in shower or keep a tap on for a bit long, then the water becomes luke warm.

My furnace utilizes hot water to heat the house, so the hot water tank is performing dual function. Thinking that the mixing valve would have gone bad again, I replaced the mixing valve again (spent approx $250 - parts/labor), but it didn't help! Then I called Reliance as I am renting the HWT from them, and the guy came in and measured the temperature of the water leaving the tank, and it was perfect - so he said not much he can do about it. The tank is working as it should.

I have put the HWT setting to MAX HOT. Some times the water is nice and hot, but then it becomes luke warm and no I am not over using the water to run out the hot water ... it just becomes luke warm in few minutes of turning the hot water tap on.

I am not sure what to do :( I am really out of options that I could have thought of - any ideas? Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

EDIT: There are two pipes coming out of the HWT. One is hot, and one is cold. The hot pipe is very hot that goes into the mixing valve's (H), which is also connected to the cold water (C) - the mixed side is luke wam most of the time. I have put the mixing valve at full hot.

The Cold water pipe that comes out of (or goes into) the HWT some times is very cold, and some times is very hot.

I showed that to the Reliance guy, and he said it is normal. As soon as you open the hot water tap it will become cold again as the hot water sometimes travel up on the cold water pipe. It didn't sound right to me, but it became cold when the hot water tap was turned on for a bit. As soon as he closed the tap, the pipe became hot again.

Not sure if that is the problem.

PS: I have read both the threads about hot water issues on the main page, and have done most of the things people suggested, but with no luck yet.

This one:
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=58251

And This one:
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=58290

EDITED on Jan 1, 2014: The problem has been resolved. I called reliance again, and an experienced gentleman showed up this time. He looked at the system, and said the problem is with the hot water pipe that feeds the furnace. He said in these kinds of system most of the time the furnace coil feeds back the cold water via the hot water pipe into the HWT, which causes the water to become luke warm as it is connected right at the spot where the mixing valve is connected. He cut the rubber pipe and installed a "check valve", and immediately the water turned from luke warm to hot again. It has been over two weeks now, and hot water has been fantastic and we've had no problems with it. Problem solved.


We are having the exact same problem. this is the first year this has happened... we've had 3 different reliance techs come in and tell us 3 diff. things, and the problem is still there since December. We get literally 2 minutes of hot water before it becomes lukewarm again. it's so frustrating.
Going to try to get another Reliance tech to come in and perhaps show him your update and see if they can fix it... Thanks!


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PostPosted: Fri May 22, 2015 6:32 pm 
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Posts: 157
Bypass the mixing valve.. growing up I never heard of anyone getting any degree burns from hot tap water....

Then again we had these commercials that saved the day

https://youtu.be/D1egIchNvGA


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