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PostPosted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 3:42 pm 
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a couple of points on this issue.

1 - there are a number of studies which claim that red light cameras increase collisions as well as a number of studies that claim they decrease collisions. My personal observation is that people stop more often at the intersection when there is a camera.

2 - these are not yellow light cameras. they are RED light cameras. they are set to go off if the light has turned red and your vehicle has yet to cross the white line and enter the intersection. Yellow lights in Halton Region are 3 seconds long. This is plenty of time to make a decision to stop. In addition, many intersections now have countdown timers on the walk signal, or at the very least a flashing hand. A cautious driver approaching an intersection on a "stale green", meaning they aren't sure when the light will/may change, should be reducing speed and being cautious while approaching.

3 - not all locations actually have a camera in the box. I believe there are fewer cameras than there are locations, and they move the camera(s) around. If the OP saw a flash - ticket is imminent.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 7:15 pm 
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prickly_pete wrote:
NOPE. flash does not mean a ticket is imminent.

You're gonna have to trust me on that one.

I agree. I'll admit I've seen the "flash" in a moment of not thinking, and never received a ticket. Both times this happened was in the summer so my plate would have been completely visible.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 9:21 pm 
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As per my web browsing, the red light camera's are not always accurate.
Each occurrence captured by a camera is reviewed by a person. If any anomalies are found then the occurrence may be thrown out or escalated for further investigation.

The rear license plate on my truck is mounted on the back hatch door. The plate housing is recessed a little so because of all the snow we got Saturday, there was an accumulation of snow where the plate is mounted and it covered the bottom of the plate, half way up.
If the person reviewing the picture can clearly read my plate then I will get my fine in the mail for $325
Otherwise I have a feeling there's a good chance I may get by on this one.
One other thing about my plates, the white background and blue letters are peeling off down to the metal. Must have been a bad batch as I've seen other vehicles in the same plate range with the same problem. MTO will not replace for free... Yah like I'm gonna pay for new plates because they gave out a crappy batch. But that's another story!

So, between the snow covering my plates and the plate peeling away, I may be ok.

But if they look at the front plate as well, I must pay for my mistake. Front plate is peeling too just not as bad.

So as per my original question: Has anyone had a RLC fine sent to them and what do the pictures show?

Bottom line, I'm guilty. But I'd just like to know what to expect and hope for the best.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2015 6:49 am 
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Mix-it-up wrote:
Does the camera take a picture of the front and back license plate? Or just the back? Do they send you the picture with the fine?

Just the back. From halton.ca:

Do red light cameras violate privacy?

The Region is subject to the Municipal Freedom of Information and Protection of Privacy Act which permits the collection of personal information as long as the collection is legally authorized and limited to only what is needed.

In accordance with this, motorists themselves will not be observed or recorded through red light cameras. Red light cameras will only photograph a vehicle's rear licence plate. In the event that individuals are inadvertently captured on film, it won't be possible to identify them from the photos included on the tickets.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2015 10:52 am 
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thegrandfromage wrote:
In addition, many intersections now have countdown timers on the walk signal, or at the very least a flashing hand. A cautious driver approaching an intersection on a "stale green", meaning they aren't sure when the light will/may change, should be reducing speed and being cautious while approaching.

So for all those "false" countdowns and flashing hands, I'm expected to slow down on a green light? Get real. Pedestrian signals are...wait for it...FOR PEDESTRIANS. As a driver, you should NEVER be taking your driving cues from them.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2015 8:10 pm 
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JTP wrote:
thegrandfromage wrote:
In addition, many intersections now have countdown timers on the walk signal, or at the very least a flashing hand. A cautious driver approaching an intersection on a "stale green", meaning they aren't sure when the light will/may change, should be reducing speed and being cautious while approaching.

So for all those "false" countdowns and flashing hands, I'm expected to slow down on a green light? Get real. Pedestrian signals are...wait for it...FOR PEDESTRIANS. As a driver, you should NEVER be taking your driving cues from them.


clearly you've never taken any driver training other than young drivers in 1994. A reasonable and sensible driver collects whatever information is available in order to make a safe decision. If I am approaching an intersection and observe the "countdown" is getting close to 0, I am anticipating that the light may change, and driving defensively and cautiously I am prepared to stop. If by chance it's a "false countdown", I simply proceed safely through the intersection on a green light, no harm done. Reducing speed in anticipation of a potential change in circumstances is neither unsafe or unreasonable. Let's be honest, if you are travelling the speed limit (60K) at Derry and Ontario for example, there is absolutely zero reason that you can't bring your vehicle to a safe and comfortable stop with the 3 second yellow light warning. If you ignore this available information you are one of the reasons my car insurance is so high.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2015 11:02 pm 
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http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-york ... e-31604908 was just reading this today so be careful


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 7:48 am 
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thegrandfromage wrote:
Let's be honest, if you are travelling the speed limit (60K) at Derry and Ontario for example, there is absolutely zero reason that you can't bring your vehicle to a safe and comfortable stop with the 3 second yellow light warning.


And THAT is why I don't need to worry about watching pedestrian signals. By maintaining a safe speed and safe distance, I control my vehicle. I don't need to slow down because maybe that light might change. If the light changes, I react to it according to the conditions at that moment. I don't add a distraction of watching the WRONG signal. I watch the ACTUAL signal that is meant for a driver.

Here's an example for you. Fromage is driving along, worrying about the countdown and flashing hand at Derry & Trudeau. While watching the pedestrian signal, Fromage fails to notice that Prickly has braked to avoid the coyote that has run into the road and is now braking hard and swerving maniacally in an effort to avoid a collision. JTP, who has been watching the road and not pedestrian signals, manages to avoid Prickly, Fromage and the coyote all in one deft move. Fromage gets a nice blast of the horn on the way by. Maybe even a #1 salute.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 9:11 am 
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yeah those countdown timers are the best thing that's ever happened for us talented aggressive drivers. Don't see how they are any more of a distraction than any other road sign.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 8:48 am 
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JTP wrote:
thegrandfromage wrote:
Let's be honest, if you are travelling the speed limit (60K) at Derry and Ontario for example, there is absolutely zero reason that you can't bring your vehicle to a safe and comfortable stop with the 3 second yellow light warning.


And THAT is why I don't need to worry about watching pedestrian signals. By maintaining a safe speed and safe distance, I control my vehicle. I don't need to slow down because maybe that light might change. If the light changes, I react to it according to the conditions at that moment. I don't add a distraction of watching the WRONG signal. I watch the ACTUAL signal that is meant for a driver.

Here's an example for you. Fromage is driving along, worrying about the countdown and flashing hand at Derry & Trudeau. While watching the pedestrian signal, Fromage fails to notice that Prickly has braked to avoid the coyote that has run into the road and is now braking hard and swerving maniacally in an effort to avoid a collision. JTP, who has been watching the road and not pedestrian signals, manages to avoid Prickly, Fromage and the coyote all in one deft move. Fromage gets a nice blast of the horn on the way by. Maybe even a #1 salute.


prickly_pete wrote:
Sight doesn't work like that though. If you're lookin far in the distance you will still see things that happen in between you and that point.

This is why they teach you to look as far down the track as possible in race driving school.

Pete has obviously taken some driver training and uses common sense. JTP is likely one of those drivers that stares at the bumper in front of him/her instead of checking his/her mirrors and collecting all the available information about his/her surroundings by looking up and down the road. As Pete stated you can look down the road and observe all kinds of things while still being able to react to something that happens immediately in front of you.



I find those countdown timers extremely useful at intersections in familiar with. Arguing that they aren't is silly.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 10:45 am 
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People don’t stare at the countdown timers like a deer into headlights. You see it counting, you glance at it to see what the situation is, and react accordingly.

More information is always helpful. If I see there’s no chance I’m going to make it, I slow down earlier then I otherwise would. If I have time, I continue as is. If I’m on the fence, I give it some gas. All of this can be done without driving like a fool.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 07, 2015 9:14 am 
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Ive never received a ticket yet from a red light cam. I suggested in feed back to Halton the idea of installing a large countdown timer at the intersection of trafalger and derry , in that would increase the safety of the intersection in an obvioius fashion. I got a nasty response advising such is for pedestrian use and this is not a busy intersection for pedestrians.

I find it interesting that such a suggestion would not even be given consideration . The safety increase is obvious to me but it appears to me there was no interest in the obvious safety benefits from Halton so in my opinion even though Halton may claim that Red Light Cams increase safety based on studies , i dont think that was the primary reason for putting them in as I do not see them investing in other technology to increase safety , only the ones where there is a cash return even if other methods might be more effective . Consideration will not even be given in combining various methods suchs a red light cam together with a countdown timer, because i suspect that would decrease the revenue from the red light cam.

Does anyone know anything about the companies that sell the cameras what are their marketing methods? Id be interested to even see what budget is allocated to the marketing of the cameras and how it used when selling such technology to various regions and municipalities. Why are these things implemented without even consulting the general public 1st? Why don't we have a say?


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 9:29 am 
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It was on the Champion this week that the current red light cameras on Derry & Ontario and Derry & JSP were in test mode so no tickets issued but they will become functional now (did not specify exactly what now meant).


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 9:41 am 
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miltonsam wrote:
I find it interesting that such a suggestion would not even be given consideration . The safety increase is obvious to me but it appears to me there was no interest in the obvious safety benefits from Halton so in my opinion even though Halton may claim that Red Light Cams increase safety based on studies , i dont think that was the primary reason for putting them in as I do not see them investing in other technology to increase safety , only the ones where there is a cash return even if other methods might be more effective . Consideration will not even be given in combining various methods suchs a red light cam together with a countdown timer, because i suspect that would decrease the revenue from the red light cam.


Exactly on point.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 10:34 am 
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miltonsam wrote:
I find it interesting that such a suggestion would not even be given consideration . The safety increase is obvious to me but it appears to me there was no interest in the obvious safety benefits from Halton so in my opinion even though Halton may claim that Red Light Cams increase safety based on studies , i dont think that was the primary reason for putting them in as I do not see them investing in other technology to increase safety , only the ones where there is a cash return even if other methods might be more effective . Consideration will not even be given in combining various methods suchs a red light cam together with a countdown timer, because i suspect that would decrease the revenue from the red light cam.

[/quote]

Your assuming these decisions are made based on science, evidence and a desire to make things better. They aren’t. They’re made on gut feelings, political pandering, and bureaucratic inertia. If they weren’t, you wouldn’t have any red light cameras to begin with.


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