, I wasn't going to bother to reply to you but after reading all your lies ,twisting the facts and putting up total BS here I decided to expose you :
here's a copy of your email dated 13. Dec.2017 way before replacing your inducer motor asking me how to fix your furnace after you gave up and hit a dead end . fact , you are attempting to fix your own furnace and drag me into it and then informed you in person that I can not help you play around a gas furnace via emails but can only suggest that I come there and do it myself for you
" Hey Mason,
Hope all is well. Not sure if you remember me but you did some work for me in the summer to exhaust my furnace out the side of the house.
We have an Armstrong furnace and running into some issues, before I get you to come out I wanted to see if you had any tips. Our furnace kept turning off on us today. I cleaned the high temp sensor, and the flame sensors, and got it working again, but it quickly turned off a few times after. Turns out the error code is reporting "pressure switch open with inducer on".
i've tried making sure all the small houses and tubes and nipples were free of obstruction. It looks like one of the larger round tubes that connects to the gasket on the blower motor had a bunch of water in it. I drained the water from it, and got the furnace to start up again but it has since turned off after 20 min or so.
Any ideas?
Thanks!
Tom"
So you were given a quote to replace the motor , why didn't you call others right there and then instead of giving me the go ahead ? Why do you agree to the job then whine and complain about it after via email ? This clearly proves that you have some serious issues and one can only wonder what type of issues those are ? Last I checked you reached out to me first not the competition !!!
Here's a copy of your email last boxing day at 5:30 pm and I was at your house at 6 pm where most wouldn't even bother returning their calls but yes I was nearby helping a family in need of serious furnace repairs so I offered to come by but first I asked you to go outside and check and see if your intake was clogged( you were told about it more than once before installing intake how you should always check that when it snows outside heavy ) and you said it was clear, also I told you to disconnect the intake pipe above the furnace just to see if it works since I have it connected to a rubber coupling in between and you said you did but when I got there you said you didn't . I also found out that it was plugged outside after you said you checked it so how's that got anything to do with labour warranty on the inducer motor on boxing day at 6 pm well pass business hours? I walked in furnace was down I walked out furnace was up and running both times !!!
"Hi Mason,
I think I am going to get a second opinion on the furnace. I am not thrilled that we paid $600 to fix the motor which ultimately resulted in the same issue. I just got a comparable non-cash quote for a new exhaust motor + pressure switch + labour which was half of what you charged me for a motor that ranges from $80 to $140 plus a $6 pressure switch from another reputable HVAC person in town. I am disappointed that rates charged are not competitive, which maybe would explain why you were quick to discount the job by $200. I feel taken advantage of to be completely honest with you. That transaction was supposed to include labour and warranty. It obviously did not fix the issue with my furnace (as I got the same error code within 10 days), and instead of that diagnosis being done under the parts and labour warranty that you said would come with the installation of the new motor, we have shelled out another $100 when you came back out to look at it. Ultimately I don't feel confident that a full diagnosis on the system has even been done given that I was able to get the system working by clearing out ice build up in the intake that you installed.
Regards,
Tom"
You were told that your furnace is at its first stages of having a problem with a penetration with its heat exchangers hence the flame is starting to roll back and yes it will ONLY do that upon start up not when it's running and don't give me any BS how you recorded it and the like , I was there and I know what I saw ,others can't legally comment unless they are there checking it ok. Tested for CO and found non and told you I wouldn't bother using this furnace it is cheap and very low quality but never said it was generating CO and if any were present you bet I would've shut it down and I have all the authority to do so like it or not . I never pushed you to buy any of my furnaces , you were only given a suggestion yet you saw it as a threat or taking advantage of you after you called me to help you how ironic is that?
As for the so called PVC cement on the exhaust pipe that's another lie because I never put that screen on your furnace EXHAUST pipe because it is against code yes but that's what your original builder heating company does best . I only put one on the intake pipe, wonder why I shouldn't deal with you ever again since you put up nothing but lies up here .
I know what happened , you just simply spent too much money on Christmas shopping and couldn't afford repairing or replacing your furnace . Your furnace is of a very low quality , its inducer is originally made in china no wonder it failed so soon and the one I replaced with is a better quality made in MEXICO and you were shown that in person too and this why it cost more and not some BS heresy I sell you the moon for $140 . Oh and about that pressure switch costing $6-$10 whoever told you that has no clue about their real prices unless of course they're selling you cheap imitation because they do cost more than that although I never replaced your pressure switch and I am glad I didn't because you would've found another lie and stick it up here .You just like to believe there are cheaper yet better prices of everything out there when it comes to your furnace .
You really need to decided who you want to deal with instead of lying to me saying " I will think about what furnace I wanna go with " but instead you went and reached out to the cut throat competition and of course they will tell you anything to make you regret dealing with the real HVACr who has a real company and not some sub-contracting Gimmick I only csall you when I need you .
Nice Try Tom but you failed.
I am done commenting here and I have real customers who need my help in this deep freeze so therefor I will not bother to this very long and boring list of lies .
nspace wrote:
For sure, I would happy to. I'm sorry its not brief (as you requested), I would rather include all the details than leave something out.
The first two experiences I had, as I mentioned were great. The first was to replace a capacitor on our AC unit, and the second was to install a cold air intake to our furnace as we started to finish our basement. I did not want the furnace to continue drawing air from inside the home for combustion, especially once the furnace was going to be contained in a utility room.
During the second job, Mason told me the exhaust motor on the furnace may need to be replaced if it is cracked (since he saw some rust below it). It wasn't leaking but he installed a new gasket where the exhaust PVC pipe connects, which was awesome of him. He also told me that it was cost me $700 to replace the exhaust motor if that doesn't stop the leak (it never leaked since).
During the first winter/snowy night of December, our furnace stopped working. Mason came out the next day to diagnose. Within a few minutes he said it was our exhaust motor. He asked me if I remembered how much he told me it would cost. I said $700. He told me $800, but then proceeded to tell me he would give me a cash price of $600 to replace it because I was a repeat customer. I had previously (after he mentioned it), looked up the cost of the replacement motors for my particular furnace. At full retail with markup they are around $140~, I'm sure him and other HVAC dealers can get them at cost. I wasn't in the mood to ask too many questions since he has been prompt and good to deal with. He did say that it would include parts warranty and labour warranty for a year, and to call him back if I had the same issue with the furnace.
To elaborate more on the problem I was having, I was getting pressure switch error codes. This was what prompted him to replace the motor. I wouldn't argue or make a case that the motor did not need to be replaced, as it did show some signs of wear, but within 10 days I was having the same problem with the furnace again. The first call to replace the motor was on Dec 14th. It started spitting out the same error codes again on boxing day (11 days later) and shut the furnace off.
So I emailed Mason. I didn't urgently call him to come out as I was prepared to hold out until the morning. Just asked if he had any idea what might be happening since he was confident that the new motor would fix the issue when he left last time. In my mind, the issue he said he fixed, is not fixed. He promptly called me, said he was around the corner in the area and he would stop by.
His first diagnosis was that my exhaust intake was clogged with ice. This was not the case. He mentioned to me that there was a grill installed on the exhaust vent which shouldn't be installed. The funny thing about that exhaust vent, was that it was (prior to Mason) never cemented in with PVC cement. It used to fall out all the time, and I would pop it back in when doing yard work. Well when he came out to install the exhaust vent, he found the grill on the ground, and said he secured it for me by cementing it back in. He specifically pointed this out when walking me through the work. Well this time when he came out, he was saying how this grill shouldn't be installed and wasn't to code...Mason was actually the one who permanently installed it. Despite this, he also diagnosed a broken GFCI switch (that I knew about, but hadn't had time to investigate) when he plugged in his tools. He told me which one that needed to be replaced, which was great. I tipped him an extra $40.
Back the furnace: The ice build up in the exhaust was not the case. So he moved inside. Next up he said the pressure switch needed to be replaced. This was also not the case when he tested it (though I later found out this part is very cheap for HVAC contractors to get and is regularly replaced at the same time as an exhaust motor, just to rule out the issues and prevent a second service call). Next up, he observed some blow-out (actual technical term is flame roll-out) only on the initial ignition of gas when the burners started. Other than that, the flames run fairly smooth into the heat exchanger, concentrated through the openings. He then told me I had a cracked heat exchanger and I would have to replace the entire furnace (it is only 8 years old with parts still under warranty).
Now from my research, without proper diagnosis, and without opening up the furnace to either find a crack, or using gas/CO sniffing tools, it is hard to come to an accurate diagnosis within the 20 minutes he was here. Right off the bat, he went into sales mode to sell me a used refurbished Carrier unit. He mentioned he could also sell me a new Payne unit with 10 year warranty but he didn't recommend it because the Chinese parts are unreliable, and that he rebuilt this refurbished unit with new parts. He pushed VERY hard (at least 3-4x) to sell this unit to me for $2500 with 1 year warranty. My spidey senses went off about the bullshitting around the exhaust motor prices, and I got the same vibe this time around. He did say he would include a $300 credit for the motor in the cost of the furnace, but also mentioned he could still sell the motor he put in for me as lightly used.... Which by my calculations (which I will elaborate on later), isn't that generous, especially when he is getting his part back.
After all the talk about the new furnace, he mentioned he could get me up and running again for the night so I could make a decision. What the? He disconnected the cold air intake (this was the intake he installed in the fall) and it started right up on the first try. After that he went into a thing about carbon monoxide, and that we should go around and test all my carbon monoxide detectors. They all work. His parting advice for me that evening, was telling me how I shouldn't run the furnace at night when we are sleeping in case we don't hear the alarm and that running the furnace in this state was not a good idea.
He charged me an additional $100 for the service...I was under the impression that this 30 minute visit to look into the same problem as before would have been included as part of his "labour warranty" after selling me the $600 motor service only 11 days prior, but it was not. I did not make a big deal of it, and paid him (cash again). Mason would remind you that he went above and beyond to come out on Boxing Day at 5:30pm (which I greatly appreciated), but I will also remind you I never actually requested him to come or made an emergency call, he offered due to the fact that he was already close by. Had I known he was going to charge me again, I would be more than happy to hold out until the morning with a couple of electric space heaters.
After that I reached out to multiple HVAC contractors. Craig at Four Seasons Cooling was one of them. I received quotes to replace the same motor ranging from $250 to $300. It is a simple thing to replace and is done within a half hour. Craig also mentioned that within his estimate he would have just installed a new pressure switch (due to the low cost, about $6-10 for him) simply to rule it out at the same time. I fail to see how the other $600 (cash price) is justified. Even if Mason charged $200 an hour, the math does not make sense..even if you doubled the full retail cost of the motor...and added shipping. I can handle paying a premium on something to get good service (Mason has been prompt after all), but I have a hard time stomaching double the cost, and then an additional $100 more when it is still not fixed. This also explains why Mason was so quick to discount the initial $800 price tag he threw at me by another $200...
Thinking back to the furnace, I also know that HVAC contractors have the ability to red tag and condemn units with cracked heat exchangers that are leaking poisonous gas into the home. Mason tested for gas but did not get any readings. If he truly thought there was a health risk due to the health of my furnace, why would be take the chance to be potentially liable for my family breathing in CO in the middle of the night? That does not make sense to me. I am convinced the parting CO detector conversation was simply a fear-based tactic to get me to make a quick decision to hire him for another $2500-$3300 job.
Following all of this, I shot detailed HD videos of the start up sequence of the burner (after all this was how he diagnosed my alleged cracked heat exchanger) and shared it with a number of HVAC professionals (both locally and a few from the States). All who saw nothing major as a cause for concern or anything that would indicate a cracked heat exchanger. After all, if the roll out on ignition was truly out of control...there is a reason why there is a flame roll out sensor in the firebox (which has never been tripped).
In the end, I went back to my furnace to try and figure out why my furnace only worked when the Mason disconnected the intake. Turns out there was snow and ice build up in the intake which was tripping the pressure switch. I ended up putting a shop vac in one end, and blowing hot air down the pipe for 10 minutes and freed up all sorts of snow and ice that was inside. This new intake has become a bit problematic because there isn't a ton of suction, and just the littlest bit of snow trips the pressure switch. I guess with the exhaust right beside, warm air condenses on the pipe and snow sticks to it, and some ice builds up on the inside). Once I cleared that, the furnace has been running normally again with the cold air intake reconnected.
I was able to make some improvements to Mason's work inside as well. He installed the PVC intake pipe with about 3 sweeping 90 degree connectors. I calculated that those connectors alone, along with the other short sections of pipe between them added virtually an extra 15-20 of pipe length because of the increased friction making all the bends. This means less suction and more work for the motor. I ended up redoing the vent more efficiently with only 2 x 45 degree elbows. There has been much better airflow since and only cost me $40 in parts from Home Depot (pvc cement, a length and two elbows of Ipex System 636 pipe).
Ultimately, I felt like there was an attempt to take advantage of the situation when our furnace wasn't working on a super cold day. Knowing what I know how, the fact that Mason never checked the cold air intake for any blockages is mind boggling. Like I mentioned, my first two service calls to Mason were positive. I even left a positive review on him on HomeStars, and recommended him to several people in town. But after the last two, the overcharging, plus the super fast diagnosis and slimy sales pitch to get me into a new furnace (his refurbished one with no paperwork), I would not call Nissan Air again. I shared my feelings and concerns with Mason about the pricing and that I would like to get a second opinion on the furnace. His response indicates that he is not interested to do work for me anymore or try to remedy the situation.
In the end I am happy to get to the outcome and learn this information prior to spending a significant chunk of cash on a new furnace. Should I need to replace it in the near future, I would be more than happy to give another reputable technician such as Craig (Four Seasons Comfort) a call.