HawthorneVillager.com

Check out the Power Pipe installation instructions.

http://www.renewability.com/pdfs/Retrofit.pdf


If they were good plumbers, they tapped off your cold water line before the power pipe and ran it direct to your kitchen sink for the cold water.

Tim

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http://spaces.msn.com/greensburg101/ website update...Feb 13, 2009

So we had this installed yesterday and took a shower and noticed the water wasn't hot enough. Before the install, I would put the tap to about 80% to get to my desired temperature. After the install, I had to put the tap all the way and it still wasn't hot enough.

Also, flushing of toilets never used to effect the temperature in the sower. Now it does.

Any ideas? It's like we're getting the opposite effect of what the Power-Pipe is supposed to do.

Could the installers have turned down the level on the water tank? I went down in the morning to check the level and it was at 140 according to the picture below. I raised it up to 145 and will check to see if it makes a difference tonight.



- Mike

The installation diagram you linked shows splitting after the powerpipe for the rest of the house. Which would (if there was drain water) mean tepid-warm water going back to your kitchen/bathroom/etc

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14C - Lot 82 - Upland B
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Wow, you got a fancy hot water tank Mike. Mine was just a dial with hotter and colder directions.




Hmmm, I'd have to have a look around for another link!

The link indicated above is good, but the one I used was a little different. Have cold water main enter the bottom of the power pipe, pre-heated water from the top of the power pipe connects to hot water tank and cold water lines to the rest of the house. One exception that was indicated and I also changed up was...to have main cold water T off to kitchen sink to have pure cold water there for drinking water...replumbed my outside taps not to be on power pipe and water filter (& future water conditioner).

Mike can you follow where your main cold water in and insure it connects to the bottom of your powerpipe? Then the top pre-heated line should connect to the hot water heater input line. If they plumbed it into the output line, you should have those plumbers fired

Good luck.

Tim

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http://spaces.msn.com/greensburg101/ website update...Feb 13, 2009

I knew it was around somewhere...

http://www.ospe.on.ca/pdf/EB-BC-Power-P ... uction.pdf

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http://spaces.msn.com/greensburg101/ website update...Feb 13, 2009

Appendum.

Yes tepid water going back, hence the savings. Think about it...if you put your hot water full blast, then you get hot water at the tap, plus tepid water going back into the tank resulting in less time to reheat the water. If the water setting is higher than the anti scald device, then it will allow the tepid water to enter the hotwater line...still resulting in savings.

If you lower the hot water to a medium setting, you get a mix of hot water from the tank and a tepid warm water coming in the cold water line, resulting in again more savings, because if it is still too hot, you'll turn the temperature down at the tap...again this results in less reheat time and more savings.

Now for thinking about cold water. If you run cold water only at your tap, you have to remember that you have a longer run of piping inside your house that can warm up, so it will take that much longer to get "cold" water at your tap. Also, if you run cold water, you shouldn't really get tepid water at your tap, because the copper in the power-pipe will get as cold as the "cold" incoming water.

Hope that covers all the bases.

Now for the new link I added, you can see that the main cold water in T's off to the kitchen sink/fridge water taps before linking into the power-pipe. Again I also took the main cold line and replumbed my outdoor taps to be non power-pipe and non "filtered/softened". Why?? Well to not water my lawn with filtered/softened and/or tepid water.

Tim

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http://spaces.msn.com/greensburg101/ website update...Feb 13, 2009

Hi Tim, had a look and I'll try to describe it as best I can (my camera battery is dead). On the diagram, the pipes attached to the left of the water tank is labeld "HOT" and the pipe attached to the right is labelled "COLD". In my non-plumber opinion, it looks to be hooked up correctly.



The only thing I can think of is that the power-pipe needs to be insulated. As of now, it's pretty cold to the touch.

edit: Oh my wife called the lady she spoke to that setup the appointment and she confirmed with the plumbers that they did not touch the hot water tank. She also said to give it some time. I'll test it again tomorrow.

Thanks,
Mike

Nope...sounds like they hooked it up backwards...thats why you are getting cold water at your hot water taps.

Consider your powerpipe as cold water. The top output of the power pipe should hook up to the cold water input of the hot water tank, otherwise you are mixing in cold water and what ever hot water comes out of the tank to your taps.

Thats what it sounds like to me. Also you have a anti scald valve between the two pipes above the tank right.


Tim

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http://spaces.msn.com/greensburg101/ website update...Feb 13, 2009

Thanks Tim, I'm at work now but will double check for the anti-scald valve.

Update:

I had Renewability and Mattamy come back and have a look to make sure everything was connected properly, and they said it was.

It turns out I did have the anti scald (aka mixer) valve. This was adjusted a bit and it made a bit of a difference but it still wasn't at the same level as before the install. So Mattamy replaced the valve and things are good now.

I guess I didn't know what exactly the mixer valve was and now it makes sense that the main input water does end up in the cold input to the water tank.

Pics below of our setup with the mixer valve location highlighted and a diagram of how the valve works.





- Mike

I was curious to what happened!

From my point of view. They did not hook up the power pipe correctly.

If you are correct in your picture documentation, then the power pipe should be on the right hand side ie cold water into the hot water tank.

Think of this, if the power pipe is not getting hot water from a shower to warm the pipe, then the water coming out is COLD, so at the connection to the hot water tank you are inserting this cold water on you hot water line. This means you will never get "HOT" water at your taps anymore...only lukewarm type water.

I will try to make some type of picture post, but the links above from reliability are correct.

Tim

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http://spaces.msn.com/greensburg101/ website update...Feb 13, 2009

I think if the incoming water is cold as in your example, then the valve closes the incoming water so only hot water goes through. Something like:



Then the cold water goes to the water tank.

I did actually send the manuals from Reliability to them, and they had, I quote, "the most senior plumber from Reliability" look at it and he confirmed the correct connection.

Regardless, I was getting very hot water last night. I guess the next step is to monitor our gas usage to see if it is actually working as it should.

I meant to ask you about the insulation. I plan on insulating mine as well and was wondering if you had any tips or anything you would do differently?

Thanks,
Mike

Copy this link to your browser... http://cid-1b804da918daf837.skydrive.li ... ?ct=photos

Hopefully it works...shows my wrap. I just used reflex pipe wrap, instead of insulation wrap. My thoughts were, what happens if it condensates and gets wet? The plastic/aluminum bubble wrap has an R value and it is plastic, so shouldn't absorb the water.

Now on the power pipe connection.

Think about your system having no mixing valve in the middle of your hot and cold lines.

Before condition:

Cold water comes in on Right side
Hot water goes out the Left side.

Power pipe condition:

Cut cold water main line that comes into the house. Connect this to bottom of power pipe.
Top of power pipe (output side re preheated water) connects back to where you cut the cold water line.
In a sense it is now connected only at the cold water input to the hot water tank.

What I see from your picture is the output of the power pipe connecting to the hot water tank output or Hot line.

So what is really happening is you are mixing in cold water twice.

Tim

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http://spaces.msn.com/greensburg101/ website update...Feb 13, 2009

New link.

check out my website for before & after.

Tim

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http://spaces.msn.com/greensburg101/ website update...Feb 13, 2009

I wish I had made a note of how things were connected before the guys came to install.

I've redrawn something quickly showing the water flow. I'm guessing the incoming water from the pipe doesn't necessarily get mixed with the hot water at the mixing valve. If it gets too hot, I suppose the valve opens, if not, the incoming water goes to the water tank or to supply the house.



I think this makes sense.

Where is your mixing valve? (I'm also assuming mixing/antiscald/thermostatic valve are all the same)

Thanks for the info regarding the wrap.

- Mike