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PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2009 1:28 pm 
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theresa Posted:

Now whats this about the central vac pipe in the garage? I dont think ours is sealed either, but we dont park in the garage?


Hi theresa,

It does not matter that you don't park in your garage. One day someone will. When a garage is attached to the home it needs to be 100% sealed from the house. There can be no holes, gaps or cracks that would allow air from the garage to enter your home.

Carbon monoxide can even be sucked into a home through an open garage door from a vehicle that is running in the driveway.

Water heaters, furnaces, bathroom and kitchen fans in a home, creates negative air pressure compared to the outside. There air is often being sucked into the home.

Below is a post I made in Feb.

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Bump Article #4

Is the garage in your new home Gas-Proofed from the house?


Written Tuesday Feb. 3rd 2009.

Yesterday, carbon monoxide killed a Markham man and put his wife in hospital after the CO seeped into the home after their car was accidentally left running in the garage.

The couple left the car running with the garage door open while they were getting ready to go out. They changed their minds and decided not to leave. Using a remote opener, they shut the garage door, forgetting that the car was running.

Whatever the story, this same problem repeats every year, often with tragic results. While your CO detector is good defence, it's best to find and repair the cause of the problem.

This is the issue -

When a garage is attached to a home, it must be 100% gas-proofed from the home.

This means that there can be no holes, gaps, cracks, or any other openings in any part of the garage walls or ceilings that are attached to the home. The Man-door must properly self close and be of exterior grade and weather stripped. Trim around this door must be 100% sealed. The hose bib, vacuum pipes, etc., must all be caulked. Unused vacuum pipes must be sealed with red Tuck Tape.

It is absolutely necessary to confirm that your garage is 100% gas-proofed from your home. Don't depend on your builder to do this properly as most garages that we inspect, have gas-proofing deficiencies.

Homes have negative air pressure. Even more so when exhaust fans are running in bathrooms and kitchens. If the garage is not gas-proofed, then air in the garage WILL get sucked into the home.

This is what you need to look for in your new home garage - but before you start looking, consider this question. Will a bucket, with a pin hole, hold water?

1) Is the vacuum pipe and hose bib in the garage caulked where it goes through the wall?

2) If not in use, is the vacuum pipe in the garage sealed with red Tuck Tape? NOT Duct Tape or green painters tape.

3) Are there any cracks or holes in the drywall, or loose drywall tape?

4) Carefully inspect all around the Man Door trim. Is it completely sealed? Use a hand mirror to look at the top and bottom trim for any gaps or holes. There are often large gaps on the underside of the Man Door threshold.

5) Does the closer on the Man Door work? Does it close the door every time? Does it only close the Man Door when the garage door is open? If the Man Door closer does not completely close and seal that door, then it needs to be fixed.

6) Carefully inspect all drywall. In areas that are not visible, use your hand mirror and look at the underside of areas the protrude into the garage. There should be no gaps, cracks, or holes.

Pay attention to the walls and ceiling areas that are attached to the home. The interior walls of the garage that face the exterior of the home are not generally a concern.

Andy Shaw - 905 876 4761
http://www.haltoninspections.com


Because this is considered a Health & Safety issue, it is covered by Tarion for 2 years, but it's best to correct these issues ASAP.

Andy Shaw - 905 876 4761

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 2:07 pm 
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Location: Cherrywood
Scott & Kristina wrote:
I think we shouldn't have to pay as an upgrade for something they legally are required to provide (sufficient heating). With that said I may inquire about added insulation. Bottom line I'm going to be super pissed if this is a problem when I close in September. I also have big plans for the 'man room' er den on the ground floor and will raise hell if it's not heated properly.


I'm joining this discussion late, but Scott & Kristina pointed this thread out to me via another thread as I have bought a Cherrywood and might experience similar problems when I move.

I wonder Scott & Kristina if you've been able to find out about added insulation for the ground floor? And I wonder if anyone else has put in additional insulation and if they've noticed an improvement?


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 2:46 pm 
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itsajeeepthing Posted:

It's the fact that the entire first floor is a cement slab directly at ground level (in direct contact with the frozen ground).


Not to nit-pick, but the ground under your concrete slab floor is not frozen.

If it was, then the floor would lift, heave, crack, and the structure would have serious problems. That's not to say that concrete slab floors feel warm or comfortable and it's true that these floors are not helpful in this situation.

The Hydronic in-floor heating systems would be a terrific improvement for these homes, but the cost and disruption that would be required to install it at this point would be significant. In-floor electric heating would be slightly less disruptive, but still quite expensive, so I'm not sure the pay-back would be worth it for either of these systems unless you planned to stay in the home for a very long time. A small electric baseboard heater would be a far cheaper solution.

Pictured below is a baseboard heater that looks like a baseboard. Since the main electrical panel is right there in the utility room, then installing a small length of this type of product may not be very expensive or difficult.

Image

A more conventional baseboard heater, like this one below, is only $28. at Home Depot and like the one above, can be controlled by a separate wall mounted thermostat.

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Andy Shaw - 905 876 4761
http://www.haltoninspections.com

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For Home Inspection services call Andy Shaw at Halton Home Inspection Service. 905 876 4761


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2009 9:53 pm 
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stumbled upon this site today and to my dismay this thread :(

got the heads up through reading on RFD which pointed me to http://summersider.com/viewtopic.php?t=141&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

I just purchased a Detached Mainstreet Home "Brentrock" model and I'm really concerned... closing will be Oct 15, 2009 which isn't too far off, but the cold weather would be hitting...

question is, I don't think the foundation has be set or anything of that sort, is there anything I can do to prevent this situation since I'm in the early stages?


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2009 4:42 am 
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Fitdiculous Posted:

is there anything I can do to prevent this situation since I'm in the early stages?


Hi Fitdiculous,

You wont be able to get them to install a hydronic/hot water system in the concrete floor slab as the home is being built, but maybe you could ask them not to install the ceramic tiles and have them leave the floor slab bare for some other type of infloor heating system that you could install after you take possession.

They are quite sloppy with the air-returns. Just ask them to make sure the air-return at the lowest level of the house works, IE - that it actually draws air from the area back to the heating system, and make sure the return is as close to the floor as possible. They will resist your quest for comfort with talking points like "everything has been approved".

Another problem on many Mattamy homes is poorly installed front doors as many do not seal properly and have air gaps that allow cold air into the home. Instead of taking their time with these installations and just doing it right the first time, they seem to relish in their incompetence and enjoy coming back to homes with mickey-mouse fixes for these doors like bits of foam that they stick on the door frame.

Andy Shaw - 905 876 4761
http://www.haltoninspections.com

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2009 9:37 pm 
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thanks for the prompt reply Andy... I just feel that it shouldn't be our responsibility to have something like this fixed in the first place. If Mattamy knows about these "issues" with prior Mainstreet Detatched and Townhomes, why do they continue to build them this way?

I'm going to assume they won't leave the tiles out... I asked about that for the carpets as I wanted to do hardwood floors but they said they don't provide a home (at least before PDI) that is "incomplete"

what other infloor heating systems do you know about or recommend? how much do they range? is it something you highly recommend in my case since the house has not been built?

or

Will 100% properly installed air-returns and front doors alleviate the cold problem?

it's just puzzling how people are having these problems when this is an "Energy Star Approved" home :x


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2009 6:13 am 
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Fitdiculous Posted:

If Mattamy knows about these "issues" with prior Mainstreet Detatched and Townhomes, why do they continue to build them this way?


I have been at homes when Mattamy Reps were there and discussed this issue. They always fall back on the fact that the house and heating system has been "approved", that they got a permit to build the home as is, and that they are not required to make any changes.

Like you, I was not satisfied with that answer.

But don't assume anything. Tell them that you intend to install an infloor heating system after you move in and you want them to accommodate you.

I have not researched infloor systems much so I can't advise you on that right now.

Properly installed air-returns and a well sealed front exterior door will help, but I have come to the conclusion that an extra source of heat is required in these homes.

Andy Shaw - 905 876 4761
http://www.haltoninspections.com

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2009 8:59 am 
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I personally installed an in-floor electric heating system in my bathroom. The bathroom tiles were always cold (over the garage) in the winter. It wasn't expensive and worked like a charm.
You might want to ask if this can be provided and how much.

John Allingham, Professional Engineer
Owner & Certified Home Inspector
Halton-Peel Home Inspection
(416) 254-5869
www.peelhomeinspection.com


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 9:26 am 
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Location: Sandcliffe Corner - Phase 5A
Hi folks...

How about those of you that have gone through your 1 year with the builder? What have they said? Was the cold first floor on your 1 year list?

Have any of you taken action with Tarion?
This being our first home .... what can Tarion do?

Thanks!


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 3:42 pm 
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itsajeeepthing wrote:
Mattamy says that this is a characteristic of this style of house. The first floor is actually classified as a basement in the building code, and as a result meets all performace standards. There would be nothing to complain to Tarion about, as the building envelope is wad. This is what i was told.....

I did have it mentioned on both my 30 day and 1 yr. Not sure what I will do yet, as I have not signed off on either of them.


That sucks. I guess my only option is to ensure they actually install the return vent properly and make sure its actually connected, as Andy has suggested.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 5:39 pm 
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We have been trying to fight this on all our forms submitted to Tarion/Mattamy.

It looks like they are going to add at least another heating vent to the downstairs. I'm not sure if this will help or not... but we've always thought it very odd... we have a brentridge end, and the entire first floor, there is only one vent facing the front door (which we are constantly getting repairs on because of the cold air coming in)

But when we look in all the other rooms in our house there is a bunch of heating vents... then the first floor that is known for being cold only has one small heating vent.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 04, 2009 1:34 pm 
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Quote:
jamesat26

So how does Mattamy prevent the ground under the concrete from freezing, especially during construction of the house?


I'm not sure what Mattamy does when pouring floor slabs in the cold as there are a few options. But one thing is very clear. - Concrete floor slabs cannot ever be poured on frozen ground.

Concrete slab floors are often isolated from the ground with foam board and aggregate/stones.

Andy Shaw - 905 876 4761

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PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2009 12:01 pm 
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For those who did something about this problem, did your natural gas bills go significantly down the following winter, or went down after the fixes?

Mr. Shaw, you are a good man for being so insightful with this problem and giving free advice; I can tell you enjoy your line of work. I shall karma you.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2009 7:02 am 
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Scott & Kristina wrote:
We were at Mattamy Univeristy on June 4th and the issue of cold main floors came up. According to Mattamy this is "not a problem" and they have "never had any complaints"


I hope you told them what they were full of... :x


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2009 7:59 am 
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stilldeciding wrote:
Scott & Kristina wrote:
We were at Mattamy Univeristy on June 4th and the issue of cold main floors came up. According to Mattamy this is "not a problem" and they have "never had any complaints"


I hope you told them what they were full of... :x


Nobody challenged them on it, because (I would assume) we didn't really have proof, but I could NOT believe that that Mr Lumber guy sat up there with a straight face and said he had "never heard of any such problem". Of course he also followed that up with "there are NO houses closing without rails on the rear decks". Totally flabbergasted is a good way to describe my thoughts on that whole thing.


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