HawthorneVillager.com

I sent a message to them this morning about it, it'll be interesting to see what they have to say back... I'm sure forums like this drive them insane because it makes it makes it easier for people to verify what they're being told....

Perhaps we can start a list of people with or without lot numbers that can attest to the lower level being cold. See what their response would be. We are closing in January 2010, not sure when our MattamyU session would be but I would be happy to bring a list of people who admit that their lower level is too cold if anyone tries to deny it.

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I'm no scientist nor am I in any way knowledgeable about construction, but considering that the Village townhouses are walkouts with the first floor being built right on cement, it would seem logical that the first floor would be colder than other floors. Just like most basements are colder than the rest of the house because it's built right on the cement, below the ground.

I found the brush off rather rude.

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Thats definately a bunch of crap because every worker we have had in our house tells us thats just how it is, everyone complains about it but there isn't anything they can do, its on cement so of course it will be colder.

It is even on our one year form so its definately not the first time they have heard it.

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They have to know about this issue with so many past complaints and home inspectors finding this out. I think that the Mattamy leaders have told all their staff not to post on this site, but as long as the cold is bearable, I can live with it since I am looking for a townhome, but they should really address the root cause and as you said, not deny it.

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What is the difference between ignorance and apathy? I don't know and I don't care.

Was at the May 14th Mattamy U session and this question did not come up in the main Q&A but I did ask Mr Lumber after and as the rest of you seem to describe, he denied he knew of a problem. But he did proceed to explain that just like a basement surrounded and on concrete is cooler than the rest of the house, you should expect the same for this first floor. It is not a builder issue though was his main point.

I can understand and believe this and along with making sure that the returns are working properly am ok with accepting that.

But my impression from this site is that we're not talking simply of 2 or 3 degree difference like you would have in a basement rather we're talking 6 - 8 degrees! And from being able to walk through a friends main street detached with in-law suite back in the winter I did notice a distinct difference in temperature between the lower level and the other levels.

For those who've had the issue what you've done, obviously the builder has done nothing have you just given up and decided to invest in a space heater???

I talked to someone at Mattamy last fall re this issue and he was not interested in my opinion. He stated quite clearly that the permits and plans for these units were approved and that they were not going to change anything. When I suggested that the "Air Return" at the entrance of the home be relocated so it could be closer to the floor, he simply repeated his first comment. Plans passed, end of story.

It's true that the design of these units, IE - no basement, attributes to this cold condition on the first floor of these homes. That's why extra care and considerations need to be provided. Instead, all people get is attitude and denial.

I inspected a 3 story town today (30 Day) and things have not changed. The "Air Return" was installed about 2 feet above the floor at the stairs. Lowering these returns closer to the floor would not solve all the problems but it would help. With the return 2 feet or more above the floor, cold air simply accumulates in the area below the return and creates a huge cold zone.

The Tarion Construction Guideline, posted below, does offer, in writing anyways, protection against inadequate heat. However, it may take a group effort to get some action.

Article Number: 8.9
Condition: INADEQUATE HEATING
Acceptable Performance/Condition: Heating systems shall be capable of maintaining an indoor air temperature of: a) 22°C in living spaces and unfinished basements b) 15°C in crawl spaces; at the design temperature for the geographical location.
Warranty: One-Year – Work and Materials, Two-Year – Delivery and Distribution Systems • Damage resulting from alterations, deletions or additions made by the homeowner and from improper maintenance is excluded from the statutory warranty.
Action: Where the heating system is not capable of maintaining the prescribed temperature, repairs shall be made.

Andy Shaw - 905 876 4761
http://www.haltoninspections.com

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For Home Inspection services call Andy Shaw at Halton Home Inspection Service. 905 876 4761

At what point are these air returns installed in a home? For example, if I had a frame walk, would they be close to installation that I could ask for them to be moved closer? I'm presuming that at the PDI stage it's far too late to change this?

I think that even if there is no feasible solution to this problem at this time, it would be much more professional if Mattamy could just acknowledge the problem even if they can't provide a practical solution. I'd appreciate it more if Mattamy could just say "We're aware of the problem but don't have a solution in place for your home at this time" rather than brush the matter off completely saying that they are unaware of the problem or by being arrogant about it as they seem to have been to Andy by saying that there is no problem.

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A couple of us on Magurn Lane who have Main Street Detached homes have sent Kelly letters already informing them we know there is an existing problem with the first floors that is not acceptable for our homes (closing in September), I would ask others to do the same, especially before construction starts to give Mattamy a chance to rectify it before it becomes a "group action" situation. If they chose to do nothing, it also makes our position stronger, just my two cents.

Rob I agree. While reading the thread it occured to me that I close in December. It would be a very long winter with a cold main floor. I am also getting the upgrade of the finished laundry room which is located on the main floor as well. I don't want to waste my investment if it is too uncomfortable to be down there 6 months out of the year.

Me too, please!

Hi ....

Just an update to this discussion on the Magurn thread:
http://www.hawthornevillager.com/phpbb/ ... 356#148356

I also got the following reply from the builder after sending an email complaining about this issue:

"I have reviewed your e-mail and can confirm that we are aware of previous concerns brought forth to us from owners of homes similar to yours, regarding the first floor being cooler than the others. We built these homes other communities and phases within Milton and as these concerns were brought forth after closing through our Warranty Department, Gary may not directly be aware of them. We have reviewed our plans and are taking steps to help keep this area of the home warmer. There will be a 1" perimeter slab break between the floor and the foundation, additionally there will be vertical insulation installed under the foundation wall to a minimum of 2ft below grade. Both these steps will help prevent cold air from transferring through and keep this area of the home warmer."

Cheers,
T

That's good moving forward - however how does that help existing owners with the problem?

I'm willing to be part of whatever group action has started. Perhaps someone should compile a list?

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HVE

I'm currently in a Brentridge and my entry is freezing in the winter too. Count me in.

Gary is Mr. Lumbers right? I can't think that a repeated complaint and consistent issue was not brought back to the attention of a member of the Mattamy team who is responsible for the construction of these homes. Even if the guy who does the PDI doesn't communicate with Lumbers on a regular basis, if he consistently received 30 day or one year complaints about this matter, he would have to flag it to his boss who would need to flag it to someone else who is responsible. It would have to get back to Lumbers at some point.

And what does it mean for people whose homes are currently in the construction process? Does that mean that my house for example, in which construction started in April or so, would have this 1" perimeter slab and vertical insulation installed?

Or is she saying that they will follow this procedure moving forward?

Here are some week by week pictures of my home being built. Does it look like what she's talking about was done to my homes (and by extension the other Village Homes on my street at least)?

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