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http://www.thespec.com/opinion/columns/ ... drome-ball

Interesting article in Hamilton Spectator today... see link above...but quoting the interesting bit (theyr'e talking about Hamilton in relation to Milton)



..above is just a snippet..read the whole article more info

Hamilton could pay ME property taxes and I wouldn't live there. Total dump.

But then it's supposed to be a dump. It was concieved of, and developed as a dump, so that real cities like Toronto wouldn't have smokestacks and pollution everywhere. They should embrase this and change their slogan....

"Hamilton, we suck so your town won't."
or
"Hamilton, we walked away from the Velodrome because we knew it would just end up as a needle exchange centre."

Hey Rick you didn't mention the article in the Sun where Paul Henderson states that the Toronto Pan-Am Games are already over budget and not a single construction contract or agreement has been signed yet. In the article he also states that " Two Major white elephants at all games are swimming pools and velodromes.

Rick Malboeuf
Councillor Ward 4

Rick M, I'd check with the City of Winnipeg to see if they'd call their Pan Am Pool built for the 1967 games and used again in 1999 games as a white elephant. 45 years later it's still a premiere facility for competitive and recreational swimming and diving programs. A world class jewel.

Will the velodrome be the same? I have my doubts but it's in implementation and marketting from the reading I've done. There's certainly a demand in the GTA for such a facility from what I can tell. Could integrate very well with the overall cycling community interests. I'd personally take the pool but that's because I'm an avid swimmer while more of a timid cyclist.

If I built a ski resort in Milton that was ten thousand feet tall, was used for generations, and was a major drawer of tourists and an Olympic training hill that earned Canada gold medals year after year. That would be a great thing.

But if it cost me 5 trillion dollars to build, it would still be colossal waste of money.

Zeeshan

The quote that Rick D posted was qualitative not quantitative therefore is only the opinion of the writer. As a Councillor I am sure you are aware, or at least should be, that it is possible to be on, over or under budget before construction contracts are signed or started (Engineering estimates are prepared for that purpose). As an example we know that the Velodrome is estimated to cost $45million and I am sure every element of the Games carries such an estimate! I don't actually know if Henderson has any "inside" knowledge to back up his comments but I found the debate that his comments started more than enlightening.

My problem is that those in support of the project have not persuaded me of the value to the taxpayers of the Velodrome. Yes we have dressed it up as using other recreational funding requirements as a substitute but if the velodrome is such a big added value to us why was it not in our plan?

One of the comments made in yesterday's debates about hosting major events such as the Pan Am or the Olympics is that it skews funding for many years after the event is over. Repayment of the debt incurred to host the event pushes other priorities down and off the list. That is one of my concerns regarding our participation in the velodrome. We don't have to look beyond the impact of some of our own projects which enjoyed stimulus funding to realise that!

My major concern remains the risks involved! Among these risks I would put first that we are likely to commit to the velodrome and its location before we have any certainty that the Education Village will be approved.

I am also not a fan of the Games being held here and I will freely admit to that making me satr from a biased position but I have seen no argument that even begins to move me off that bias!

Martin

_________________
Martin Capper

HVRA member

www.cappercares.ca
www.MartinCapper.com

If you guys can somehow get a couple of squash courts designed into the building somewhere that would be great. It would create a revenue stream after the games and provide another means of fitness to the community...

Why we would continue to put in tennis courts everywhere which can only be used 6/7 months of the year over squash courts is nuts. Zee - I know you a squash fan - add that to the post game plans for the building.

Hi Zee, I only mentionned the Sun article because if we are to seriously consider this velodrome then we should be looking at it from every point of view. As for Henderson's credentials, its true he is not involved in these games but he has been involved in a previous Olympic bid and I believe a previous Pan-Am Games bid, he is a former olympic athlete and was a member of the International Olympic Committee. Put aside the name of the newspaper and simply compare his credentials and experience to those of the editorial writer. Also you cited the chair of the Pan Am Games Committee who stated Henderson's comments should not be taken seriously. You indicated he was a former conservative premier, in fact David Peterson was a former Liberal premier, need I say more.

Rick Malboeuf
Councillor Ward 4

Hey Rick D. how do we go about getting a poll up and running on this site on this velodrome thing, similar to the Lambert poll. It would interesting to see how people feel about our pursuing this thing. I know from what I am hearing from the people in Wards 2,4 and 5 the vast majority are not in favour.

Rick M

I'll post Mike's post that turned me from 'this is an awful idea' to 'this is probably something that should be considered'

The basis behind this facility is that its more than just cycling. Its a facility that can be and will be multipurposed. As with those other velodromes others talk about as failures this will provide more than just cycling. Basketball courts, indoor tennis, or if turf theres indoor soccer, cricket maybe, football practice field (Ticats are you listening? )

As I mentioned during the special council meeting and as Zeeshan had mentioned, the $3.8 million has already been budgeted for similar use facilities. Its in the bank so to speak and not coming out of taxes. We have been able to stand above other municipalities in the Greater Milton Area for a reason....partnership with the private sector.

This deal could NOT have been done without the assistance from the private sector. Mattamy is just ONE of the companies involved in the fundraising process for this deal...there are many many more. Tim Hockey, President and CEO of TD Canada Trust who is also an avid cycler is getting behind the project personally and will assist in fundraising for the velodrome. The pool of resources isnt just in Milton, its national organizations...international organizations as well that can assist in the fundraising.

Thats where other municipalities failed. They couldnt harness the power of the private sector in getting things done. We as a council made it very clear that if we were to move forward on this there has to be minimal to NO impact on taxpayers. This can only help in growing our business base ... and hense more tax revenue in town.

The Milton Education Village is just one of the keys to that success. The land is ready to go, our partners are ready to go and the provincial government needs to see that by approving Milton as one of the locations for satelite university campuses (as they have already acknowledged) it will go a long way for THEM to keep a promise made in the last election for increasing the number of post secondary spaces in Ontario. This MEV project moving forward can help kick in the pants OTHER things that Milton needs, like an interchange at Tremaine Road so that everyone on the west side of town doesnt have to drive along Derry and or Britannia to go to the 401 and help with the backlog of traffic that way.

With moving the Candian Cycling Association here to Milton with this facility we can help increase travel and tourism to the area. Right now we only have 2 hotels. We WILL need more (any entrepreneurs out there?) for when they hold national/international events thats even more businesses that can benefit...from hospitality to restaurants to local businesses the impact can be huge.

Having the velodrome on campus adds some other benefits that can be looked at for revenue generating possibilities. The parking lot can be used at the university and we can charge a monthly fee for profs using it or what have you. Theres also the matter of the legacy fund set up by the Pan AM games ... we dont know the amount yet, but that should evolve through the business plan process over the next 4-6 weeks.

Is it a done deal? Not yet. ONE more report to go. That report will outline the needs for committments at all levels so that we feel comfortable the project will stay under $40 million (contingencies are already built into that number) and that we can get the job done with our fundraising partners so that we dont have to dip into the tax pool on this.

Sorry for the rambling and Im sure Ive missed a few points but I wanted to make sure we let people know that theres one more step in the process before its a go and I can assure you if the numbers dont add up for me, even though Im excited about the project I wont want to see it move forward.

This town has shown others that we're not the sleepy town we once were. I watched a Hamilton city council meeting recently when they were discussing their umpteenth attempt at getting it back and the almost distain in their voices when they mentioned MILton of all places. We arent 35,000 people anymore. I know I sound sales-y by saying this but its true. Milton is a force to be paid attention to from now on. This is a project I know we can put together, that can be used for the games and years after so its not abandoned like the others and that it can help kick start the business growth we need in town to add more revenue to the town and to be the "new" centre of the universe in the GMA.

Wish is my command. Actually, on most things I completely think you are off your rocker, but hey, not my councillor, and why not have the NO man sometimes around.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=43666

LOL. Love the poll-skewing, push-polling questions.

As long as we can get guarantees on the funding such that the location contribution is guaranteed to be below $4 million for construction I can't imagine why we wouldn't want the velodrome. It will provide all sorts of recreational and economic benefits, as well as help put Milton on the map. Sure there will be ongoing costs but they are minor to compared to the benefits. If you really want to make Milton an interesting place, and not just another suburb, you have to do some things that may be unconventional or risky, but in reality, once again assuming we get guarantees on funding, there seems to be little risk. If the funding drops, and the local share would increase to (for example) $8 million then I do not support the project, my opinion is based on the numbers discussing a local contribution in the 2-4 million range.

Lots of people on here often talk about Milton growing up to be "Not Brampton", this seems like a good place to start! Assuming we get written guarantees regarding the funding, can someone explain what the drawback is? Rick M?

I couldn't be more excited about an indoor velodrome in my own backyard. Sure, I ride my bike over 10K kms a year, and travel to London to ride the track there, so obviously I am an enthusiast. But I also play mens league hockey at the MSC. My kids take skating lessons and play hockey at Tonelli and The MSC. They learned to to swim at the Leisure Centre, where my wife and I used the fitness facility and spinning classes. My kids visited the library for story time. We use what are tax dollars are paying for and don't complain about the fact there is a water pad in every new sub division my kids don't use or haven't visited the Centre for the Arts.

I can pretty much guarantee the people that don't want a velodrome are the same ones that don't use half of the facilities the town has provided as recreational centres. They will speculate that the velodrome will sit empty, but the 4 ice pads at MSC, surprise-surprise, don't get used every minute of every day either. The indoor running track isn't exactly filling each lane shoulder to shoulder. (in case you didn't know, it's above the ice surface over one of the new pads at the MSC).

So the fact that only a small percentage of the community may use the facility, is no different than if we were to build a soccer dome or any other sport/recreational building that appeals to a small niche group. The difference maker is unique geographic location and how it appeals to cyclists. The escarpment is and will continue to be a major destination every day of the week for road and mountain biking, Skiing, hiking, snow shoeing etc. We already have a BMX track that draws people from all over the country and the addition of an indoor track facility will put us on the world map of cycling. This would be the only international indoor track east of Los Angeles in all of North America. It will draw spectators and athletes from around the world. You positively can't say the same about a soccer dome or racket ball court.

So what's in it for me you ask? If you don't use it - nothing. But maybe you own a business, or work in town and that business might effects to benefit you. White and grey collar jobs might start showing up and you can finally avoid commuting to work every day. Maybe the Metrolinx adds full day go service and a second station in the west end. Dare I even say an express train to and from Toronto??. Wow, the velodrome spin off effect could actually benefit you personally.

On a community pride level, there could be young athletes here that find that cycling is their sport and make it to the top levels internationally. This is a very likely scenario since we already have Tara Whitten, Zach Bell and Clara Hughes, that are olympic and world champions that will have the velodrome their main training facility, and would be an inspiration to continue the winning tradition of the sport in Canada.

One thing I look forward to is the level of awareness of cycling this will create for my own safety on the road while am training. Maybe if your kids are riding, you might give it a second thought buzz the shoulder or honk at a rider on the street that's out there just trying to keep fit and relieve a bit of stress.

I don't agree with everything Milton has done up to this point since it was chosen a "Place to Grow" in Ontario. But this is one thing I know I'll be 100% behind them on.

Interesting to note Winnipeg made 8 million on the 1999 Pan Am games. Not sure about 1967 but the pool was one of their few permanent facilities, updated a bit for 1999 not build new. Temporary velodrome both times, was miserly in their capital investment. What Toronto is planning is more aggressive and my guess a money looser. But, the infastructure is committed so why not take a serious look to see if it will make sense. If it doesn't a temporary structure will be the result somewhere. Westender, well said.