HawthorneVillager.com

I was nailed by the cops at this intersection for rolling a stop.



The cop gave me a talk about safety for the kids. At the time I was stopped by the cop school had been out for over an hour. Also, at this time the intersection did not have a stop sign for drivers going north on Miller. So i could take the corner at 50 going north but rolling a stop making a right onto Miller was a safety issue.

I went to court over this ticket and it was dropped.

I beg to differ. I am a crossing guard at a 4 way stop, almost being hit 3x myself by some of these "safe" drivers. I could tell the Mom's and Dad's out there, stories about some of these "safe" drivers that would make their hair stand on end. There are many drivers on the streets that have no regard for children's safety. When you hold up a stop sign it means stop and school zone means there are kids in the area which some drivers choose to ignore because they are in a hurry to get to work. I wish the police would come and sit at my corners. They'd have a field day.

This is not something to make fun about.

They had the flashing signs up about "safety week" in front of cop shop all week
Said were targeting cell phone users

I saw at least 3 tickets yesterday along Derry

A marked police car could help save lives as people see car and adjust accordingly
An unmarked police car is for revenue generation as car wont see the cop until after driving infraction

I drive a light grey Caravan. Please do not confuse me with the police.

Those people are completely different from the ones who stop at the wrong part of an intersection, roll through an intersection or don't stop for long enough. I've never heard of anyone getting hurt because of any of those things (I'm sure it's happened, I've just never heard of a particular event where this has happened)... Suburban intersections are just stupid. In Toronto, sidewalks are directly adjacent to the road so people can stop at the corner of an intersection and don't need to keep rolling to be able to see if there is any oncoming traffic (normally you're able to rule out any pedestrians way before you even get to the intersection anyway). In the suburbs where they have those sidewalks with a 10 foot setback from the road, no one should be surprised that people roll through them. Why would someone stop 10 feet before a corner when they can clearly see there is no one around, then stop again in order to see traffic running perpendicular to them? Toronto also has speed bumps and curb bump-outs in certain areas where if drivers aren't paying attention, their car gets destroyed. Those are perfect, and as a parent, I wish they had more of because those actually make the roads safer (but unfortunately don't generate the insane revenue that cops hiding behind bushes do). Another thing that makes my kids safer: crossing guards... I'd gladly pay to put more of them on the streets if it meant replacing undercover police because a crossing guard (as I'm sure you know) will actually prevent my child from crossing the street before it's safe. A cop hiding in a Caravan won't stop my child from running out when it's not safe (that should be my job, yeah, I get that), the cop will just be there to give out a ticket after the fact.

What do you base this on? I'll go with common sense - when people know you have unmarked police cars driving around enforcing traffic laws, it makes sense that it creates a general deterrent effect. People decide that they need to "mind their p's and q's" or "drive like a school girl" (to borrow a few lines from this thread) all the time, because there might be one of those unmarked cars around. Now, were all these people minding their p's and driving like school girls before this week, just because of all the marked police cars that drive around every day? Of course not! They figure they'll drive any way they want and just be careful when there is a police car around, that is, a marked police car.

And I know, I know, all the posters here are great drivers who should be trusted to bend the "little" or "stupid" traffic laws as they see fit because they never cause accidents. (btw - I don't know who causes all the accidents but I guess it's nobody on this forum) Police should instead find out who the actual "bad" drivers are and just ticket them instead. Thing is, I don't think those people wear t-shirts identifying themselves though, so i guess the police figure they'll start with all the drivers who break the basic traffic laws and go from there. And if they see someone breaking a real "dangerous" one, then bonus! They'll probably give that guy or girl a ticket too. I'd rather they ticket all the "good drivers" breaking the "minor" traffic laws in the meantime, while waiting for that dangerous guy. I mean it's better than sitting around doing nothing, right?

And in the meantime, I'll make sure I don't break any minor traffic laws so i don't get a pesky ticket. And if i do break one and get a ticket, I'll feel stupid, I'll suck it up, and I'll realize that i knew the rules, I took a chance or was careless, and now I'll face the consequence. I won't call it a cash grab or say I'm an awesome driver and they should know that and leave me alone and go pick on my neighbour or someone else instead.

There are at least 3 common themes that always come out in threads like this: 1. Any type of enforcement activity is nothing but a cash grab, 2. All the people who get ticketed are actually great drivers who aren't doing anything unsafe, and 3. The police should really be catching those other people who actually are doing something dangerous - although that "something dangerous" is rarely actually defined. I think "something dangerous" basically means anything besides what a poster got a ticket for.

I mean, speeding? running stop signs? running red lights? those are all called "cash grabs" around here. What's left? Would the people of this forum or the people of milton think it would be better if they only gave a ticket when there was an actual accident and left all of us alone the rest of the time?

there was an article in the sun a while back and there was a record number of pedestrians killed in toronto last year from vehicle collisions. like 60 or something. the majority were at or near intersections. some were pedestrians' fault, others were drivers' fault, i don't remember the breakdown. yeah, it's toronto, i haven't seen an article about milton. but intersections are where pedestrians get hit, and sometimes injured, or killed. and in every case where the driver was at fault, that driver would have done one of the things you mentioned above, or broken some other traffic law.

the thing is, all these things seem harmless until a driver does one and hits someone, then the danger is obvious. and people always say "but i don't do that when there are other cars or pedestrians around". but the point is, people don't see all the other cars or pedestrians and that's how all these accidents happen in the first place.

Wow, that was a very thoughtful response.

to the great recipe for a home brew beer that is in my fulsome post, above. it's somewhere in the middle of the post, towards the end.

Ok witch one of you is Tyrone Seeds?

Name one accident ever that was caused by a driver not stopping for a full 3 seconds. Pedestrians have the right of way, but they must still stop at an intersection just like a car. If pedestrians followed their rules, stopped at an intersection and looked both ways, do you think that would cut down on the accidents maybe? I walk (and drive) in downtown Toronto every day and it's absolutely beyond me how anyone could possibly jump off a curb the way they do, without looking, (grown adults!) and expect that all traffic around them stop.

I'd be willing to bet more people are killed in Toronto because of piss poor city planning than actual piss poor drivers
Absolutely horrid planning with street parking, lane ending, construction closures / temporary lanes, unmarked / poorly signed, pothole city

The fact people need to fight to get in & out causes accidents


Sudden lane changes (esp weaving around cars because you are in rush), impaired driving (alcohol or drugs), and excessive speeding are far more dangerous than rolling stops (although I have an issue with running red lights or turning left on double yellows as well, as my argument history on this board shows, they are not as dangerous)


We both know the idea an unmarked car causes people to drive "better" is complete bs
If it was even remotely fact, then number of tickets issued should decrease (or do you claim average driver is that poor skill wise?)

The other reason most people consider it revenue generation is the cost of tickets vs time/cost to fight in court
My last ticket I insisted on trial solely for principle because I refused to pay
Took me 4 court dates & 16 months before prosecutor even bothered to call me (and every single court session is well you look guilty so you should just pay and we will let you off now)
Its a system, and it certainly has nothing to do with safety, it has to do with grab as many dollars as you can today and worry about trial next month

Have you ever been inside a traffic court?
Step 1 - call anyone not here so insta-guilt & collect fine
Step 2 - call anyone who is scared into a guilty plea & collect fine
Step 3 - bother with the trials
And dont even get me started on how LAZY they are with breaks / lunches every 10 to 15 minutes, and Milton court even has half sessions so once the 9 to 12 slot passes then its on to next batch and tell first batch come back another day