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The issue of the hospital expansion and the upcoming discussion of Milton Town Council regarding the hospital tax levy, I felt the need to ask this question.

Are you prepared to accept what council says and not knowing the amount that levy might be, are you willing to say yes to the tax levy.

If this is being considered for the 2011 budget, the new council needs a mandate...a true vote of support...in order for this to be legitimate.

With so many variables in this discussion, the resolution by Cindy Lunau to ask the provincial govt to allow DC's to be charged for this ... the hospital tax levy ... or other means to collect funds (ie GTA Pooling) it becomes difficult to make a final decision.

I think town council needs a mandate from Milton residents, either yes or no, to see if this is how they want their hospital funded. There is no guarantees by the province to get the funding, and we dont know the time frame involved. I also dont think council should go ahead and start with this levy without a clear voice from Milton voters.

Who knows, this might actually get people out to vote. Then everyone wins.

This is purely for informaton purposes and of course isnt scientific.

Thanks for indulging.

_________________
Mike Cluett
Local/Regional Councillor
Wards 1,6,7 & 8

Website | Email mike@mikecluett.ca | Cell (647) 888-9032 | Facebook Page | | Twitter @Mike_Cluett

I agree with Zeeshan that this is not the type of issue for a referendum. Besides, any fool had to know that a hospital expansion would be required from the day the big pipe was approved, and 35,000 people have signed up to support that need.

The issue is not whether there is a need or whether there is public support. The issue is whether council is finally ready to take some concrete action by starting a reserve fund, initially how much, and what source of funding.

I would be particularly disgusted if there was a delay for a referendum, especially a referendum where the only choice was no funding of local capital or funding by tax increase. There is already far too much talk about the tax increase possibility when other options are available.

By the way, the $2.5 million per year in GTA Pooling money is equivilent to about an 8% tax increase. The $6 million per year from Mohawk about 20%. The Hydro profit .... The $1.9 million 2009 surplus ...

On June 28, I want to see council agree to the concept of preparing for local funding (without getting hung up on the total number), authorize the setup of a Hospital Expansion Reserve Fund, find some initial funding NOW even if that is a collection of pocket change from those attending the meeting, and direct staff to propose ongoing funding options (considering all options and particularly those that don't require a tax increase) as part of the 2011 budget process.
No referendum needed, just a reasonably capable council.

Hi garlis and other posters

Regarding the referendum idea, the clerk has already informed council that the deadline has already passed to have any question on the ballot under the provincial municipal elections act.

I agree there needs to be a combination of fund raising methods which staff are researching for the June 28th presentation. The last major fundraising for the Milton Hospital expansion was in 1985-87 and I was a member of the buy-a-brick committee which together with other committees raised over $ 1.5 million for the municipal portion at that time. The original estimate before the province announced the municipal and community share was $ 500,000.

The Town at that time contributed about $ 100,000 over three years and waived the building permit fee for the hospital expansion as part of their contribution. The ideas you have stated and others are being considered by staff which will be debated on the 28th and then refered to the Budget committee for further consideration. I understand the Hospital Foundation is also planning a major fundraising effort.

What we need now is the approval of the plan by the two Provincial ministries to go ahead with the staged construction as outlined in the hospital design which the Ministry of Health authorized a few years ago for a five stage expansion over the next 10 years.

I will be posting more information as it comes available.

Colin Best
Local & regional councillor
Member of the Friends of Milton Hospital Committee
Candidate for Local & regional councillor
Wards 2,3,4,5. North of Derry road.

_________________
Become a Fan! Visit my website! Email: colin.best@milton.ca Twitter Follow! 905-878-3623

Again, thats what part of the motion Cindy Lunua raised was to ask the province to allow municipalities to raise the DC's.

Re: your view on referendum...

I disagree that they are only to be used for "simple issues" like names of streets. Referendums are used to gain the mandate or the OK from voters for governments to make major issues that will affect the region. I think that this is one of those issues.

If you want to change the name of your street, thats a totally different process because people lets say in ward 6 wont be affected by that other than updating GPS or map books.

In 1992 we in Canada had a referendum on the Charlottown Accord. Not a simple issue at all.

In that referendum, although there were a miriade of issues that were complicated, people still found a way to be informed and make their decision. Some agree and some disagree but a decision was made and the people had a direct say.

There are so many factors involved here with the hospital and many things out of the control of town council, it complicates the issue. This isnt as simple as saying lets open a savings account and start putting some money in.

Another item that puts a stone in my shoe is the fact its taken until May 2010 (election year...and now according to the clerk too late to have a referendum question on the municipal ballot) to get this going.

Last year 35,000 people in Milton signed a petition through the Friends of Milton Hospital. There was an incredible amount of momentum gained especially with media coverage and the "buzz" in town. That should have been capitalized on and started this process at that time.

We will be possibly taking large sums of money from taxpayers wallets in the coming years (for possibly and indefinate time period) for something that again, isnt guaranteed. Its an emotional issue, and we as taxpayers, candidates and members of council need to look at it more logically. To get a solid plan in place and then act on it.

We are all united behind this. We all have the same outcome in mind when it comes to our hospital...its our community. Something needs to be done and soon, but we also have to make sure the plan will work.

_________________
Mike Cluett
Local/Regional Councillor
Wards 1,6,7 & 8

Website | Email mike@mikecluett.ca | Cell (647) 888-9032 | Facebook Page | | Twitter @Mike_Cluett

Zman, you have to give us regular folks a little more credit than just being good for street name change referendums ...

Lou & Leanne, I think if I understand correctly the provincial legislation does not allow municipalities to collect their share of the hospital expansion capital funds by charging the developer otherwise it would have been done a long time ago. Doing what you suggest is a development charge, and the legislation ties municipalities hands and does not allow them to do that. Go figure. They can use DC's for roads, sewer/water but not hospitals. I personally like the idea a number of prospective electees have mentioned of recouping taxpayer money that's already being collected in the form of GTA Pooling funds.

I'm mixed on the referendum idea. I like to think, maybe optomistically, that the general public can be well informed enough to have a say in how their money is spent on such a critical issue so that's how I voted. But, we elect our officials to be able to make exactly these decisions and - hopefully - understand more of the intricacies of the various levels of legislation and politics involved.

I've had an extensive conversation with Mike Cluett on facebook on the hospital topic. It comes down to the fact, that for me at this point making any kind of commitment to raise public money whether it be through a tax levy or otherwise makes me extremely uneasy. We don't even know if the province will give its permission.

Usually I agree with the faction who says- trust the politicans. But this is a lot of money for a maybe, vauge if we get a "yes" future date- I just think we should get some kind of say in this. After all, this is a project that will affect current, and future residents.

We do need it- there is absolutely no denying that. I've heard the same thing about estimates, 30% being in the neighbourhood of $300 million- between 260-280 million. I don't think it's a good idea to risk tax dollars via a tax increase on a maybe proposition... which if we're being realistic at this point is what hospital expansion is.

Zeeshan: You know what's going to happen if a new road is made, or the Bank of Canada raised interest rates. With the hospital, too many questions exist right now. How many sq. ft is it going to have? (I'm told that has a direct impact on how much Milton will have to pay) What services will it house? Will it have green technologies? (solar, wind etc) and perhaps most importantly: How much will it cost? How much will Milton have to contribute?

I also agree- a portion of the money is going to have to come from property taxes. But I think that decision should be made based on a final number of what we have to raise, and not now when such information doesn't exist.

In this case, a referendum will put the ball firmly in the public's court. It will provide political cover, yes. But when you don't have firm numbers, facts or firm permission it's probably best to let the public decide if they want to pay the extra money on their tax bills.

Politicans will have to stand behind their actions this time around. Cindy's motion is a matter of public record in the Champion, and I'm thinking it'll be in the Compass this week as well. And she'll have run on the fact that she proposed a tax increase- it doesn't matter if it's for the hospital; it's still an increase.

Zeeshan you seem like a nice guy who genuinely wants to do his best for the community, but I have to say it's concerning to me when politicians think the great unwashed that they represent are too stupid or too apathetic (or too whatever) to understand the "issues".

OK, now you've got me wading through provincial legislation looking for clarification on stuff I've been told.

Found this in the Development Charges Act describining services INELIGIBLE for development charges:
http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/html/statut ... _e.htm#BK3

Ineligible services

(4)A development charge by-law may not impose development charges to pay for increased capital costs required because of increased needs for any of the following:

1. The provision of cultural or entertainment facilities, including museums, theatres and art galleries but not including public libraries.
2. The provision of tourism facilities, including convention centres.
3. The acquisition of land for parks.
4. The provision of a hospital as defined in the Public Hospitals Act.
5. The provision of waste management services.
6. The provision of headquarters for the general administration of municipalities and local boards.
7. Other services prescribed in the regulations. 1997, c. 27, s. 2 (4).

Now I've got to go wading through the Public Hospitals Act to try and find the funding details. Couldn't seem to find it in the 2001 Municipal Act. Uggg. If anyone else happens to know where the legislative details are please post them.....

OK Lou&Leanne, the volume of legislation surrounding health care is insane. It will take a while I'm sure to sort out where to find the funding details. I did find this reference in the Ministry 2007-8 annual report regarding local share funding (pg 23):

http://www.health.gov.on.ca/english/pub ... p07_08.pdf

"The ministry also implemented a new local share policy that provides communities with 90 per cent of the eligible construction costs for hospital projects."

Zeeshan,

The question was never going to be "do you want Milton Hospital Expansion" You would have had to have lived under a rock not to see that the expansion of MDH being on the radar of issues in this town. Its just now thing are being moved forward, rather quickly I might add, to add options for the 2011 town budget.

Re: apathy...just because less than 30 per cent of people voted last municipal election and even less in the old ward one, I wouldn’t count them out as being apathetic. Many of those people who didn’t vote in 2006 have moved to the new ward 7 and 8.

The question for the possible referendum would be do along the lines of ... "do you want Milton town council to apply a special tax levy on your property tax bill dedicated to the expansion of the Milton District Hospital" and something along the lines like "would you support this special tax levy over a series of years..."

Problem is I think this is more of a Region of Halton decision rather than the local municipality. As I’ve stated in the past there are so many variables that can affect this decision.

The problem I have with Cindy's motion is that it brings up asking the provincial govt to change legislation...and the other is raising taxes. There are many more options that both the town and region can consider and all she put down was 2...one of them being a tax increase. Why is it that the easiest / fastest course of action is taxes?

We are already paying income taxes to the provincial government every year...those taxes are to go towards things like...hospitals...and other services. So some might say, raising taxes to pay for a hospital is a form of double taxation.

No one can come up with an amount. So going forward we are essentially going to be giving town councillors.... if this motion goes through.... permission to tax us over a period of time.

Or would it be one time. How many homes do we have on the tax roll right now? I don’t know that number but let’s assume 50,000 homes. I know it’s less, but we'll use that number for now.

In a previous thread you threw out the number $60-80 million dollars. We at the town do not have the numbers to come up with that amount of $60 million.

Now if it was a one time tax levy, were talking over $1,200 per home. Do the math when it comes to per centages.

Are Milton residents willing to allow our council to do that? My assumption would be no. NOW you might say it’ll be a multi year policy. So that amount now goes a bit lower but we're talking about a multi year EXTRA tax on Milton taxpayers.

Another factor is the economy....what is going to happen to the economy in Canada in the next 3-5 years. We already know the provincial government is suffering with close to 30 BILLION dollar deficits and these capital expenditures are easy to pass us...especially seeing that 2011 is an election year. They can promise the moon and then not deliver.

Can Miltonians afford it? Bank of Canada in a week or so will be increasing the bank rate affecting many who are still on variable rates. For those who are looking at fixed rates, banks have been slowly raising those...a factor that can affect taxpayer’s ability to pay this extra tax.

Disposable incomes are under pressure...and with the coming of the HST in Ontario and BC we will see a number of goods and services increase by 8 % overnight....

These factors, among others, have to be considered before the town goes and tries to raise taxes. There still is only one taxpayer. US.

So even if this flies at the town, I think it’s important that all the information comes out, and voters have their say directly in the form of a referendum.

There is no question when it comes to what people want...they want the expansion of the local hospital. Given the expansion of services of different hospitals in the region, and also given the fact that its not just Milton residents using the Milton hospital, the "fund" to pay for the expansion shouldn’t just come from Milton residents.

I'd like to hear Colin's plan / views. Again, like everyone else out here on the forums and on the ballots, I’m not an expert in the health care industry.

_________________
Mike Cluett
Local/Regional Councillor
Wards 1,6,7 & 8

Website | Email mike@mikecluett.ca | Cell (647) 888-9032 | Facebook Page | | Twitter @Mike_Cluett

I think that was CompassLaura.

I heard that the province will likely approve a Milton hospital expansion when Milton council starts building a Hospital Expansion Reserve Fund using GTA Pooling revenue. Pass it on!

No.. I was under the impression that was the case, but was mistaken. My sources tell me they're going for a full-service hospital; enlarged ER, Peds, and maternity... everything. My feeling- emphasis feeling, as in it's merely an impression. My feeling after speaking with our MPP is what Milton Council wants as a full-service hospital, and what they could eventually get are two different things. I've been told nothing concrete. This is just speculation on my part.

The MPP told me, that it all boils down to how "full-service" is defined. It means different things to different people. I'm sure to most it means that all services will be available at one location. He tells me it is entirely possible that the basics will be available at Milton Hospital- I'm thinking that means ER, possibly Maternity, maybe some minor surgeries. But the more specialized services, such as mental health or cancer treatment would be handled at the major centres such as credit valley (cancer treatment) and Trllium (Mental Health).

All of the above is speculation, and opinion based on things some people told me. It's nothing more.

From another thread, this is what I heard at Milton council on May 17.

" For the record, 3 key points were covered:
- John Oliver, CEO of Halton Healthcare Services stated that hospital expansions in Oakville and Burlington have no bearing on the need for expansion in Milton. Each hospital will serve the basic needs of its own community.
- He also confirmed that municipalities that can demonstrate their ability to raise the funds for required local capital are more likely to get priority from the province. Start saving now - even if the target amount is just a guess.
- Treasurer Leeds answered councillor Best's question by stating that Milton currently gets $1.5 million in GTA Pooling funds, increasing to $2.5 million in 2013 and beyond. "

No speculation. Oliver is on the record. He is a real person with real responsibilities in this area and we pay him real well for his efforts. Until there is a documented source of negative rumour that trumps that, I suggest we should respect his opinion and focus on the task at hand.