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Milton's tax rate DROPPED in 2010?

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miltonLeo

Post subject:

Posted: Fri Oct 01, 2010 2:51 pm

Joined: Sat Sep 22, 2007 9:10 pm
Posts: 2288

Quote:

I have no problem with a 3.24 effective tax increase, given they reduced tax rates to get there ...

But they didn't actually reduce anything. Quite the opposite. The town INCREASED taxes, and by more than the rate of inflation.

The point is that the tax rate (mill rate) went down by merest coincidence, since it is simply a calculated value which happens after the fact.

Town decides what their total tax revenue needs to be ... this was an increase. Then they look at the total assessed fair market value of the taxable property holdings within the town. Then the mill rate is calculated as a simple expedient to distribute said taxes across the property owners.

Does that make sense? Bottom line ... the town did not decrease the 'tax rate' (mill rate) since they had no direct input into setting it in the first place. If the assessed value of the total property tax base was lower, the tax rate would simply be calculated higher ... it's usefulness is in determining how much an individual taxpayer's burden is vs. his neighbours, but it says nothing in context of total tax burden by itself. And in the Town of Milton's case, everyone's taxes went up year over year by more than the rate of inflation.

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Fred D

Post subject:

Posted: Fri Oct 01, 2010 3:19 pm

Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2007 3:55 pm
Posts: 5278
Location: 4th line / St Laurent

miltonLeo wrote:

But they didn't actually reduce anything. Quite the opposite. The town INCREASED taxes, and by more than the rate of inflation.

lol ok,... yes, I understand how tax rate calculations work. My position was that I was fine with 0.92% even knowing that my assessment values are already set and rising. I was fine with 0.92% going forward. I assumed my taxes would be x, then , x+Assesment 2011, then x+assessment2012, etc.
The fact is that percentage has dropped to 0.88% so I'm happy that my taxes aren't going up as much as my assessment did, and as much as I budgeted for based on that assessment, so I'm getting a break on my own projections, AND reassurance that my complaints about property taxes are no longer true (from previous posts about assessed values rising but the tax rate not falling given the huge gains over the past 5-7 yrs)

They could have just as easily left the tax rate the same (or increased it), and then be left with a huge surplus (or wasted it on more unnecessary stuff).
Oh wait, that's what they did in 2008.

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Knave

Post subject:

Posted: Fri Oct 01, 2010 3:24 pm

Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2009 9:51 am
Posts: 1616
Location: HV

colin b. wrote:

MILTON
RURAL .00834846 2,504.54 + .51 % + 12.83

URBAN .00878423 2,635.27 + 5.76 + 143.56

So, does this mean that a rural milton resident with a house worth just as much as mine will pay less tax?

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colin b.

Post subject:

Posted: Fri Oct 01, 2010 4:47 pm

Joined: Wed Dec 07, 2005 11:58 pm
Posts: 2607
Location: MILTON

Hi Knave

Yes rural residents pay less taxes as they also receive less services such as no transit or other urbab services, less garbage services ie. no bulk pick up. (see attached details)

http://www.milton.ca/corpserv/tax/Taxrates2010.pdf

Colin Best
Local & regional councillor
Candidate for Local & regional councillor
Wards 2,3,4,5. North of Derry road.

_________________
Become a Fan! Visit my website! Email: colin.best@milton.ca Twitter Follow! 905-878-3623

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garlis

Post subject:

Posted: Fri Oct 01, 2010 8:08 pm

Joined: Tue Oct 10, 2006 11:28 pm
Posts: 703
Location: Ex Milton(ian)

colin b. wrote:

Here is how Milton stacks up compared to other GTA communities for 2010 mill rates. Also keep in mind that the other municipalities also have increasing assessments as well.

Sorry for the chart format it did not translate well from the original.
2010 RESIDENTIAL TAX RATES

TOWN/CITY MILL RATE X $ 300,000 % DIFFERENCE $ DIFFERENCE
(AVERAGE ASSESSMENT)

TORONTO .008305702 = $ 2,491.71

MILTON
RURAL .00834846 2,504.54 + .51 % + 12.83

URBAN .00878423 2,635.27 + 5.76 + 143.56

CALEDON .00969107 2,907.32 + 16.68 + 415.61

MISSISSAUGA .00982115 2,946.35 + 18.25 + 454.64

OAKVILLE .00982526 2,947.58 + 18.30 + 455.87

HALTON HILLS
RURAL .00960448 2,881.34 + 15.64 + 389.63

URBAN .00994659 2,983.98 + 19.76 + 492.27

BURLINGTON
RURAL .00980076 2,940.23 + 18.00 + 448.52

URBAN .01039739 3,119.22 + 25.18 + 627.51

BRAMPTON .01202267 3,606.80 + 44.75 + 1,115.09

FLAMBOROUGH .01319730 3,959.19 + 58.90 + 1,467.48

HAMILTON .01538147 4,614.44 + 85.19 + 2,122.73

OSHAWA .01704499 5,113.50 +105.22 + 2,621.79

PLEASE NOTE : MILL RATES ARE THE AREA TOTALS INCLUDING REGIONAL
AND EDUCATION TAX RATES.

THESE FIGURES CAN BE VERIFIED AT EACH MUNICIPALITY'S WEB SITE
OR FINANCE DEPARTMENT PHONE NUMBERS.

The reason for Toronto residential tax rate being so low is that their residential property tax rate is being subsidized by the highest commercial and industrial tax rates in the GTA.

Also Toronto is helped by the provincial GTA pooling which you and other residents in Halton, Peel, York and Durham regions are paying through your property taxes for Toronto social services which is being gradually uploaded to the Province by 2013.

Something else to think about when you vote on October 25th or the advance polls earlier

I get a little hot when I see this chart of tax rate comparisons implying that council has been doing a great job. It tends to appear just before election time but at least this year I have not seen it on councillor t-shirts.

Three points:
1) If you hear incumbents bragging on low tax rates, ask them exactly what their contribution was. It certainly is not apparent from watching their budget input at budget meetings.

2) Participants on this thread know the equation that results in a tax rate. A comparison between municipalities would be more meaningful if it was based on the average tax paid rather than an arbitrary $300,000 assessment. At least it should show the average assessment in each community for reference. I would guess that the average assessment in Milton is significantly higher than Hamilton for instance, resulting in a lower tax rate for Milton.

3) Colin explains why the Toronto tax rate is low but does not mention the $6 million per year that Milton enjoys from Mohawk. If you add that $6 million to the $28.9 million in residential taxes that Milton collected in 2010, the increase in tax collected and resulting tax rate would be 20.8%. The tax rate for urban Milton would go from .00878423 to .0106113 and the taxation on $300,000 of assessment from $2635 to $3183 - about the middle of the GTA pack.

Buyer beware! Ok, I think I can control it now.

Last edited by garlis on Fri Oct 01, 2010 8:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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morningsunshine

Post subject:

Posted: Fri Oct 01, 2010 8:21 pm

Joined: Tue Oct 02, 2007 8:41 am
Posts: 200

Okay, I knew I was going to be made to sound like I don't know anything, but here's my point.

In the 16 years I've owned a home in many different municipalities:

EVERY year my assessed value has increased
EVERY year the mill rate has increased also

EXCEPT THIS YEAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I still think the town has been doing a reasonably good job. Too bad I'm in Ward 8 and can't vote for Colin.

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The Home Hunter

Post subject:

Posted: Fri Oct 01, 2010 9:20 pm

Joined: Fri Feb 17, 2006 9:14 am
Posts: 674

morningsunshine wrote:

In the 16 years I've owned a home in many different municipalities:

EVERY year my assessed value has increased
EVERY year the mill rate has increased also

EXCEPT THIS YEAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The mill rate decreased in Milton last year as well. Interestingly, as it wasn't an election year, no one talked about it.

_________________
Hunter Obee
Sales Representative
Royal LePage Meadowtowne Realty
Diamond Award Winner - Top 3% in Canada
http://www.TheHomeHunter.ca
905-878-8101

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Steve Heath

Post subject:

Posted: Fri Oct 01, 2010 9:44 pm

Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2006 9:49 am
Posts: 1268
Location: HVE

morningsunshine wrote:

Really not trying to dump on you, but... re-assessments are only done every few years, the last ones that taxes were based on were 2005 and 2008. Just quickly checking, not just Milton, but Oakville, Mississauga, and Hamilton also all lowered their assessments from 2005 to 2006, 2008 to 2009, and again in 2010. Hamilton lowered theirs a lot more on a percentage basis than Milton did, but Milton lowered theirs more than Mississauga.

(That said, living in Mississauga, they handle construction and roads a heck of a lot better than Milton does, just compare the overpass built at Winston Churchill and the 401... one summer for them to make a temporary road to the side (no curbs though, they weren't planning a 5 year job), dig half of the underpass, build half the bridge, move the tracks to the finished half, dig the other half of the underpass, build the other half of the bridge, put in the final curbs and pour the road, to the joke that Derry & Bronte are, a summer later we have misaligned cars from driving over torn up areas and a weird ashphalt part road to nowhere.).

Anyway, point is, it's very common for mill rates to go down with every round of assessments, then shoot back up again, which is why it's really only worth comparing actual tax revenues on a year over year basis.

But I agree with you completely about voting for Colin... I don't even know who is running in ward 8.

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freemantrailfamily

Post subject:

Posted: Fri Oct 01, 2010 10:25 pm

Joined: Sun Feb 07, 2010 3:17 pm
Posts: 3525

Steve Heath, Brian Penman is running in for Local & Regional Councillor Wards 1,6,7,8 along with Tony Lambert and Abdul Kushk. Brian sits on budget committee with Colin (Chairs it actually). He's making the move this time to run for Regional & Local Councillor.

www.brianpenman.ca

For details on the other candidates look on pg 2 here:
http://www.milton.ca/execserv/election2 ... idates.pdf

I'm not a financial details person so much as some of the other people here, but I do know we pay the same property tax on our house as my parents do on their home in Winnipeg, which is assessed at half the value.

I always kind of laugh when people complain about how long it takes to build an overpass. I do agree Mississauga sure has it down to an art form - we were living there when they did the Winston Churchill one and it went up at a blazing pace and that should definitely be the target. But, my other perspective is growing up in Winnipeg. I'm sure they hold the record for longest overpass approval and construction. It took over 20 years of squabbling to get an underpass built under the CN main line on the main route to the airport from the south end of Winnipeg. You always had to build in an extra 15 minutes going anywhere from the south of town on account of train. There's no way that would be tolerated anywhere in the GTA.

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Steve Heath

Post subject:

Posted: Fri Oct 01, 2010 10:33 pm

Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2006 9:49 am
Posts: 1268
Location: HVE

freemantrailfamily wrote:

Thanks, FTF, I'll have to do my research before the election... I'm just guilty of being intellectually lazy and assuming the politicians who answer questions here on the villager are the best.

Quote:

I'm not a financial details person so much as some of the other people here, but I do know we pay the same property tax on our house as my parents do on their home in Winnipeg, which is assessed at half the value.

Yeah, ultimately it all comes down to value received for amount paid, which is a personal decision that everyone must make for themselves. Living in HVE sometimes makes you feel like the red-headed stepchild of Miltonians (not only do we experience our problems, we experience the east end ones too on the way to work

) so I'm not loving it these days, but hoping a new council will make things better... or that the next generation might finish Derry and Bronte

Quote:

I always kind of laugh when people complain about how long it takes to build an overpass. I do agree Mississauga sure has it down to an art form - we were living there when they did the Winston Churchill one and it went up at a blazing pace and that should definitely be the target. But, my other perspective is growing up in Winnipeg. I'm sure they hold the record for longest overpass approval and construction. It took over 20 years of squabbling to get an underpass built under the CN main line on the main route to the airport from the south end of Winnipeg. You always had to build in an extra 15 minutes going anywhere from the south of town on account of train. There's no way that would be tolerated anywhere in the GTA.

Hahaha.... yeah, I think the bar should be set a bit higher than that

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freemantrailfamily

Post subject:

Posted: Fri Oct 01, 2010 10:43 pm

Joined: Sun Feb 07, 2010 3:17 pm
Posts: 3525

Quote:

) so I'm not loving it these days, but hoping a new council will make things better... or that the next generation might finish Derry and Bronte

Quote:

Hahaha.... yeah, I think the bar should be set a bit higher than that

Yeah, I'd never recommend Winnipeg to be a planner's role model to anyone, though they acutally retrofitted small traffic circles recently on a street to control speeding. I was shocked!

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freemantrailfamily

Post subject:

Posted: Fri Oct 01, 2010 11:13 pm

Joined: Sun Feb 07, 2010 3:17 pm
Posts: 3525

Quote:

yeah, ultimately it all comes down to value received for amount paid, which is a personal decision that everyone must make for themselves. Living in HVE sometimes makes you feel like the red-headed stepchild of Miltonians (not only do we experience our problems, we experience the east end ones too on the way to work

) so I'm not loving it these days, but hoping a new council will make things better... or that the next generation might finish Derry and Bronte

I would imagine Brian can sympathize with Ward 8 residents quite a bit right now. He lives further down Derry under the escarpment and would have to drive through the craziness on Derry every day to go into work at Town Hall.

Come out to the All-Candidates meeting Steve Camelli is holding on Oct 6th. Great opportunity to meet the candidates in wards 1,6,7&8.

Don't forget about school trustee too. I'm quickly learning how important that position is in determing everything relating to schools in Milton. I'm hosting an all-candidates meeting for trustee (Catholic and Public) at the Sports Center on Oct 4th.

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Steve Heath

Post subject:

Posted: Sat Oct 02, 2010 7:53 am

Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2006 9:49 am
Posts: 1268
Location: HVE

freemantrailfamily wrote:

Quote:

) so I'm not loving it these days, but hoping a new council will make things better... or that the next generation might finish Derry and Bronte

I'm actually not going to vote for trustee. We don't have kids, and never will (but aren't one of those "so I don't want to pay any school taxes"... I did my time in the portables at Sam Sherratt & E. C. Drury and don't wish that on any kid), so it's impossible to know what is most needed... I'll let the parents pick a good trustee.

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