HawthorneVillager.com

The Toronto Star has been portraying the Police officers as beasts on the loose. Why? Why do they keep looking for stories where a mishap took place? Afterall, the officers are humans as well. They are bond to make mistakes.

What is wrong if a frightened female officer, in the middle of nowhere, in the dark of the night, after calling for help not knowing her radio lost signal, after being attacked by a homeless with a chair, pulled the trigger not intending to kill (pointed towards the leg). how is she so mistaken if the person died days later due to complications.

What I am trying to say, is why the Star is trying to create such a gap and hatered relationship between the public and the officers. I would love to see the writer stand in front of one of these situations and react better. He/She would have called 911 then. Oh, hold on, 911 is the line to the Police.

This is just another joke down the same line when they defended the demonstrators during the G20 Summit.

Yeah, they are gunning down on SIU investigations where police were let off after civilians were hurt or injured.

Many people who live their sheltered Starbuck's sipping lives will agree with the Star and believe cops are all bad and these poor criminals are just poor souls who have been forced to deal with the hand they were dealt.

I'm from the other camp. I have many friends and family in law enforcement and I know that they basically deal with the worst society has to offer day in and day out. They don't ever really have a "good day" at work. They are dealing with poverty, senseless crime, mental health issues, spouse/child abuse and unstable people either due to addiction or mental health.

At the end of the day, as a police officer, it's your life against theirs. It's your children having a mother/father. Police only have a split second to form a decision about the person in question and regardless if it's a pocket knife they are wielding against you. It's your life, or theirs.

The bottom line is, you will never be the focus of an SIU investigation if you co-operate with police and offer them the utmost respect regardless of the situation. You follow their orders. Yes sir, No maam! You'll be fine.

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A few questions:

1. Do you believe that officers should be running their notes by a lawyer before showing them to SIU, or after?

2. Do you believe that officers should be identifiable by the public (does not necessarily have to be a real name, but some internal identification)

3. Do you believe that police should videotape encounters between themselves and public (cameras are very compact these days and can be on almost all the time). If not, why not?


I'll state my opinion upfront. I believe that the police are (properly) vested with extraordinary powers, and with those powers comes extraordinary responsibility. The day that police stop carrying guns, the day that the weight of an officer's testimony does not carry disproportionate weight in court... that is the day they can be treated the same as a civilian. Until then, no matter what the union says, they are not civilians, and cannot be treated in the same way.

I think it is silly to reflexively say that any police shooting is an example of cops gone nuts. However, I think it is equally silly to say that any police shooting is an example of some scumbag getting what he deserves. Some people are shot for a good reason, others are not. The Toronto Star was simply pointing out how unlikely it was that, of the 4500 investigations, only 3 involved cops screwing up so badly they deserved jail time. No profession has that many good apples.

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omnia dicta fortiori, si dicta Latina

I hate when people are completely anti cops or think they can do no wrong. Many cops will say an innocent person will not need advise from a lawyer before being interviewed but when the shoe is on the other foot cops think nothing of lawyering up. You make excellent points Knave.

+1. I couldn't have said it any better.

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What is the difference between ignorance and apathy? I don't know and I don't care.

You do realize the legal system is designed to twist and interpret facts to the benefit of their client. There is a reason why there are so many "Over 80" outfits to get guilty drunk drivers off by poking holes at the officers notes -- this is the same in more serious offenses as well.



Would you give your real name to a murderer or drug dealer so they can track down your wife and kids? I do believe their constable number is given when requested and visible for most police forces.



I do but I think the problem is that the video ends up being scrutinized just like the officers notes. It's very easy for a jury/SIU to watch a video of a situation 100x.. or 1000x and say "that person wasn't going to actually kill you" but in the 30 seconds the officer has to come up with that decision, there is no comfort of sitting back in a LazyBoy chair and watching videos.

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Dtc, how many of those businesses to get people off DUI's are run by excops - lots.

The key word there is "ex" -- usually for a reason.

There are good and there are bad in any profession.

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I've been reading the police vs. Toronto star articles each day and I agree the one regarding the female cop shooting the guy wasn't something I thought should appear in the article. The guy resisted arrest and threw something at the cop due to it being dark she had no idea what it was and what his next move was going to be; What if he had a knife in his hands.

Today's article however is very shocking. The poor guy gets his arm snapped by cops and left on the side of the road....

Sure he should have checked the attitude as that didn't help but still the cop shouldn't have done that. Hell there are a number of ways a cop can verify the ownership of the car; all they had to do is compare his drivers license with the ownership papers and if his name matches then obviously its not stolen....

http://www.thestar.com/news/article/883 ... -laid?bn=1

I personally know of one case where a police sergeant was accused of perjury by the defence counsel. In his ruling, the judge found the accused not guilty of his crime - based on the fact that the sergeant had allegedly purjured himself. He had stated he was at the scene and gave the order prohibiting something but pictures showed him not there.

At no time did the judge, crown or defence counsel demand that there be an investigation on the police sergeant for perjury. Unusual to say the least.

Oh, I should mention - the accused was a Toronto Star employee. Do you not think it odd the Star didn't demand an investigation regarding the perjury since it affected their employee? They seem to want everything done by the police investigated.

But then, maybe it was all made up to get the employee off and the police sergeant was the scrapegoat.

Don't believe all you hear by the Star.

This happened to my 60+ mother as well. The cop was certain that her car was stolen. After 30 odd minutes he decided to let her go.

I probably give cops the benefit of the doubt more than most people. They have to deal with lots of scummy, scammy people that will lie and cheat, and act like little old ladies/and or accountants. Just because you are a designated CA doesn't mean you won't lie your way through a traffic stop -- give me a break.

I don't like what the cop did in this situation at all.. i think he should get a smack for it. I do think however that as much as the accountant wanted respect you should show this respect as well to the police. And clearly by his own admission he was copping some serious attitude.

I expect students to show me a certain level of respect. If they do not show me that respect, which of the following would be a reasonable action for me to take

a) Insult them
b) Break their arm
c) Spit on them
d) None of the above

I don't care what somebody says to a cop, words should never lead to physical harm. If I tell a cop that he seems like the type to have sexual relations with his pet dog, that does not give him the right to break my arm.

Also, I note in the original article that the SIU said they could not investigate because of a lack of witnesses. This is why I believe that all encounters between the police and the public should be recorded, both for the sake of the public and the police. I imagine they must get many frivolous charges thrown at them... but some of those frivolous accusations are probably the truth.

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Typical rubbish from the red star.

I don't think its similar situation a teacher with a student and a cop with the public.

You may feel that you are dealing with the worlds worst deliquents that lie and cheat, but really, they are just kids. Cops really do put themselves in harms way every single day -- and have to deal with people who are just lowlifes, have agendas, outright hate cops etc.

Just like the situation of the female cop that shot the homeless man. As a cop its not as easy to just get back in your car and run away (which is what instincts tell you to do) when encountering a wackjob throwing sh*t at you.

Should they break his arm? No.. would they have broken his arm if he when told he was arrested calmly complied, no...

Unfortunately, once the cop says 'you are under arrest', in my mind thats it. There is a system to dispute it after the fact. If you fight them trying to handcuff you THEY WILL cuff you and THEY WILL likely hurt you in the process. Hell, they may even taze your ass.

Reminds me of the movie Crash.. The cop was certainly not in the right, but at the time of being pulled over is not the time to have a legal discussion. Your funeral if you disagree.

For the record, I teach in a great school with great kids . I was speaking purely hypothetically. I was also not trying to equate the two jobs... though I should have realized that it would be interpreted as such. I was just using my own experience to try and draw a parallel that fit with my point.

My point was that when provoked, there is a professional response and there is an unprofessional response. Breaking an arm is definitely on one side of that divide.

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omnia dicta fortiori, si dicta Latina