HawthorneVillager.com

Hawthorne Village (Milton) Discussion Board
It is currently Sat Jun 13, 2026 12:23 pm

All times are UTC - 5 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 1889 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 ... 126  Next
Author Message
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2011 11:39 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu Jul 06, 2006 9:02 am
Posts: 2720
New forecast from TD Bank is calling for an average 10% price decline over the next 2 years

http://www.td.com/economics/special/sg0711_housing.pdf

Highlights:

- 2011 Q1, national resale activity and average prices are projected
to decline by 15.2% and 10.2% respectively over the next
two years.
• Restrained economic growth, higher interest rates, new mortgage
borrowing rules and eroding home affordability help support
our call for more moderate housing activity.
• Fewer new home buyers and reduced investor appetite should
also simmer new and resale condo activity.
• In addition to our national perspective, we provide an in-depth overview of twelve major markets within this paper.
• Over 2011-13, Calgary, Edmonton and Regina housing markets
are set to lead the way. Still, the term “leader” is relative as no
market is slated to experience a boom over our forecast. We
simply have these regions doing better than the rest.
• Given their recent run-up in activity, new condo supply and
only subdued economic growth forecast, Toronto and Vancouver
are expected to see a larger than average correction in both
sales and prices relative to other regions.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2011 11:43 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jul 23, 2010 12:50 pm
Posts: 149
I just sold my semi in 4 days for 375K, had multiple offers. Townhouse in Oakville (Bronte creek) was sold for 1mil + in 1day.

_________________
[url=http://www.TickerFactory.com/]
Image


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2011 12:00 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jul 23, 2010 12:50 pm
Posts: 149
yes, i think asking price was 1,029,000 sold for 1,015,00. Watercliffe Court in Oakville.
very similar to this listing, but bigger: http://www.realtor.ca/PropertyDetails.a ... -623746497

_________________
[url=http://www.TickerFactory.com/]
Image


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2011 1:14 pm 
i dont see a decline for the reasons you guys do, if it happens at all as we have good demand, demand will hold pricing. unemployment is low, and job creation was roughly 28,000, decent, and in the right direction. to compare, the u.s. only created a paltry 18,000! im more worried about the debt default in the u.s. that would cripple and market, even greece would have negative impact here.


Top
  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2011 11:55 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Aug 30, 2010 4:10 pm
Posts: 813
Some more in the news:

http://business.financialpost.com/2011/ ... r-wallets/

Quote:
“In fact, inflation-adjusted non-mortgage consumer credit is now rising at the slowest pace since the early 1990s,” he said. “At this rate of slowing, growth in non-mortgage consumer credit will enter negative territory in the second half of the year.”

Lines of credit are rising by almost 6% annually, now the slowest pace on record. Direct loans, on the other hand, are growing about 1.5% a month, which is unsustainable, Mr. Tal said. Mortgage arrears, at about double the rates seen prior to the recession, appear to have peaked.

Canadians are also spending a greater proportion of their income on interest payments at 7.6%, the highest rate since 2008. This figure has risen by almost 50 basis points in the past year.

Consumer bankruptcies are down more than 20% in the past year. Personal bankruptcies in Ontario are down 30%, the biggest decline in Canada.


and..

http://business.financialpost.com/2011/ ... hort-term/

Quote:
Karen Cordes Woods, a financial markets economist at Scotia Capital Markets said the risks of tightening monetary conditions currently outweigh the benefits and she doesn’t think the Bank of Canada will move on rates until the second quarter of 2012.

She said material tightening is being imposed on the economy from fiscal retrenchment and the strength of the Canadian dollar to stricter mortgage lending guidelines and elevated commodity prices that continue to crowd real wage growth despite the improvements in the labour market.

Although there is recent evidence of inflation creeping into the economy, it’s not nearly enough to justify a rate hike and Ms. Cordes Woods believes a move to tighten by the Bank of Canada would only put more upward pressure on the dollar and represent an unwanted headwind for the economy.

“The Bank of Canada still has time to stay on the sidelines,” she said. “They will do what they see fit given the conditions.”

_________________

Looking for something to do today?
Day Trips Canada - http://www.day-trips.ca


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 15, 2011 6:15 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Aug 30, 2010 4:10 pm
Posts: 813
Dabills wrote:
good stuff DTC, i question whether the credit slow down is due to exhaustion or actual frugality.

Hard to tell i guess. i dont see rates moving either.


It looks like people are borrowing more for housing but less for everything else.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-o ... le2097194/

Quote:
Growth in consumer credit debt in Canada is no longer outpacing income, and is rising at its slowest pace in a decade.

Excluding mortgage debt, the rate at which Canadians are borrowing money for consumer goods has slowed so much, it is on the verge of entering negative territory, CIBC said in a report on household credit released Thursday.

...

“While we were talking about how much debt people have, slowly, without people noticing, we actually started reducing our debt, or slowing the rate at which we accumulate debt, especially in areas that are not related to the housing market, namely what we call consumer credit,” Mr. Tal said.

While consumers are curbing their spending, the Bank of Canada’s business outlook survey, released on Monday, offers signs that businesses will pick up the slack, says Peter Buchanan, CIBC senior economist.

“The early parts of the recovery were driven by the consumer and households. From here, certainly, business spending will be carrying more of the load,” Mr. Buchanan said.

“There are some reasons to think that companies will be hiring more and we may get a bit of offsetting support countering any weakness.”


I know from my own isolated personal experience, most of my friends have been paying down outstanding debt, credit cards, store cards, etc. and looking more towards savings. I think many are aware of the global economic situation and the fragility and are trying to make themselves less prone to being caught with their pants down.

How this plays out, I don't know. I know many companies are already reporting soft sales for the 1st half of 2011 and consumer demand for non-critical goods down. The question will be if the businesses can weather this slow period, let people catch up with their debt or if they will start slashing jobs to make their fiscal year -- a blow to the economy.

_________________

Looking for something to do today?
Day Trips Canada - http://www.day-trips.ca


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 15, 2011 12:22 pm 
Why is it that every pro rental article winds up with someone deciding its too expensive to own their huge house, downsizes to a town and then talks about how comparatively renting is the way to go... wait for it .... your 1.2million dollar home is more expensive to both own or rent then your 800k town home...

So let me throw this out... if you make almost no money by owning a home and we should all rent...

how does the guy renting the house to you actually make money at the end of the day? He clearly has to absorb all the "costs" of home ownership? like up-keep, taxes, mortgage etc and come in cheaper with rent than owning the home itself...


Top
  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 15, 2011 12:23 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2007 3:55 pm
Posts: 5278
Location: 4th line / St Laurent
Dabills wrote:
I think at this point its pretty safe to say what our previous discussions about renting/owning in this current market cant be put to rest.


It has little to do with the overall 'market' and much to do with the person's personal situation. The guy in the article has a startup business, wants flexibility and low risk - he shouldn't lock in 400k of liquid assets, NOR should he have a 450k mortgage, period.

The individual's situation and the prices of what they are looking for tell the full story. This article is just one story.
(You know I agree with you on this stuff, I just had to point out the obvious - since the one story doesn't put the debate to rest at all :) )

It makes a lot of sense for certain people to rent - including this guy in the article, obviously! (I still think he's crazy for renting that large anyway, but I don't know his full story...) Also, deline.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 15, 2011 12:34 pm 
There is nothing clear in that article other than a flair for the dramatic, the numbers still dont make sense unless you only take 1/2 of the financial equation.

Does it make sense for him to rent?... sure he wants flexibility and to minimize short term risk. Its not about "savings"


Top
  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 15, 2011 12:40 pm 
Dabills wrote:
sorry batman, i dont know what you mean. if you own a house outright you can put all of your money into investments? of course, congrats and thats great.

that has nothing to do with what we are talking about.



it absolutely does, thats the part ever renter leaves out in their equation... the cost of home ownership doesnt stay the same for ever, its stead for X years then essentially disapears, rent over the long term is a slow upward climb.

Right now even in milton renting a house vs owning an equivilant house for most people its actually cheaper to own dollar for dollar no question it is for me.

Renting a 4 bedroom home in milton ~1600 + utliities
Owning a 4 bedroom home in milton of the same size for me works out to be 1400 a month when I include mort/taxes/maitenance. So in the short term I'm banking an extra 200 a month, short term and long term I'm working towards reducing my living costs to essentially nothing


Top
  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 15, 2011 12:43 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2007 3:55 pm
Posts: 5278
Location: 4th line / St Laurent
Dabills wrote:
it clearly puts the financial side to rest, in todays market Fred? there is no doubt renting is way cheaper.


Sorry, I have to disagree - you can't make that blanket statement on either side of the debate.

SOME places are cheaper to rent, while OTHERS are cost prohibitive to rent.
and more importantly, every situation needs context... and a lot of it.
down payment, interest rates, personal financial situation, and much much more.

_________________
Fred De Carolis
FREDHELPS.COM or on Facebook
Thanks for your support in the
search for Milton's Favourite Realtor!

REVEL REALTY -- MILTON'S FAVOURITE REAL ESTATE BROKERAGE, as voted by YOU!!!


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 15, 2011 12:46 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2007 3:55 pm
Posts: 5278
Location: 4th line / St Laurent
Dabills wrote:
yeah batman, ok, so the average person it takes 20 years to pay it off at a higher cost than renting.
do the numbers for that on a 325K mortgage, interest etc.


At a higher cost than renting? that's where you're wrong.

You need to calculate property taxes, maintenance, and INTEREST only. You do not add in principal because that is forced savings - that is still yours.

IF renting costs less than property taxes, interest, maintenance, and other throw away carrying costs, then YES you're right. But you cannot include the principle in this comparison because that money is in theory still yours, just forced savings.
That's why context is so important. Principle can be anywhere from a tiny slice to the majority of one's monthly payment.

Good debate, keep it goin - good for people to see both sides!


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 15, 2011 12:49 pm 
If renting costs less than owning a property... then every landlord in the world is getting hosed..


Top
  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 15, 2011 12:53 pm 
Im still trying to find a nice house on mls to rent with 4 bedrooms for 1700 a month..


Top
  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 15, 2011 12:56 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2007 3:55 pm
Posts: 5278
Location: 4th line / St Laurent
Dabills wrote:
interesting Fred, i have never heard someone remove the principal. why would shiller leave that part out of his equations? Or the NY times rent/own calculator i provided?


Cashflow arguments, sure, leave it in.
But net worth comparisons, you have to take it out.

If you're living paycheque to paycheque, then cashflow is a very important stat.
If you're not living paycheque to paycheque and planning long term, investments, savings, etc, then principal is exactly like moving a certain amount into say a mutual fund, with the only caveat being that the balance will rise and fall with the market... (same as a mutual fund)


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 1889 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 ... 126  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
[ Time : 0.024s | 11 Queries | GZIP : Off ]