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PostPosted: Fri Aug 26, 2011 7:27 am 
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<sputter> I'm sorry, but if you're actually paying a grand a year for your health premium, then you're netting over $200,000 a year and I have a hard time mustering any sympathy for you.


I was certainly not looking for your sympathy, nor from anyone else. And I don't think I even was complaining about paying the tax.

Pretty sure I was illustrating the point that we were told by McGuinty back then, that there would be no new taxes.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 26, 2011 8:02 am 
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Zeeshan Hamid wrote:
Okay, back to the topic now. We agree that the first term was bad. No argument there. But I totally disagree about the current term. He did really well in the current term. In the second term he introduced HST, eliminated business capital tax, reduced corporate taxes from 14% to 10% (not there yet, but getting there), reduced small business tax down to 4.5% etc. A lot of deficit is from stimulus spending that Harper required province to match. Just like federal deficit now that stimulus is running dry, provincial deficit will improve too.


I agree, Dalton had a bit of an enlightenments on the corporate side of things in his second term. He’s seen the light, and is doing what he can to make Ontario a competitive environment.

I’m also not concerned about the current deficit (I’m outraged by the pre-recession deficits). Nobody will talk about this during the campaign, but it’s clear that BOTH parties plan to make significant spending cuts after the election. Dalton has a commission doing some sort of ‘efficiency’ study right now, and it’s going to be used as political justification for cutting services and laying off workers. The only question is by how much and where.

Hudak has pledged to cut spending, just not to Education or Health care. It will be interesting to see how he plans to balance the books without touching these two massive programs.

It’s going to be interesting. If Dalton wins, we’re going to get program cuts. But he’s a liberal, so they get away with it because, obviously, they don’t WANT to cut spending. Dalton will probably shed a tear diring the budget, and the whole province will give him a big hug and say “there, there.”

If Hudak wins, we’re going to get program cuts. But he’s a conservative, and will be blasted for it because, obviously, he’s an evil rich bastard who hates children, puppies, and the poor.

The reason why I will vote for Hudak over Dalton is because:

1) Dalton’s an established liar, and that alone deserves punishment.
2) He’s going to raise my taxes again (but will say he won’t – See #1). Hudak, I can at least trust not to screw me over a barrel for every penny I’m worth.
3) The green-energy program is a farce, it’s unnecessary, and we’ve only begun to see the true cost of it.
4) I’m so sick of populist policies enacted simply to please people who don’t understand the issues. Pit-bull bans, pesticide bans, cell phone bans, the green-energy plan, etc all sound great until you try to look deeper into the issue and realize there’s no answer to the problem (or no problem at all)
5) Hudak will probably sell off the LCBO, and I’m hoping will allow alcohol to be sold in corner stores. I am SO sick of having to make a 30 minute drive to/from the store to get a simple case of beer. I’m SO sick of the government assuming that I’m retarded, and will become a raging drunk if this stuff becomes convenient to purchase.

Zeeshan Hamid wrote:
I highly disagree with cutting HST %. Harper screwed up by cutting GST by 2% as well. If we're going to have taxes, we need to figure out best forms of taxation. HST is significantly better than corporate taxes. He left HST % same and cut corporate percentage. Next step is cutting income tax rate. HST is the last thing to touch.


The only reason Harper cut the GST is because in his first run for PM, which he lost to Paul Martan, he pledged to cut income taxes. It didn’t work. So he tried the HST, and he won. You can’t fault the guy for campaigning on a promise and then enacting it. People get way too hung up on the efficiency of the tax. While it’s true, the GST is preferable to an income tax, it’s still a tax, and less of any tax is a good thing.

Zeeshan Hamid wrote:
About eco-fees, implementation was a disaster. But Hudak isn't promising reform, he's promising to scrap it. He isn't saying "we're going to re-implement the program" He's saying "we'll get rid of it". The important part is that electronic recycling is still happening, now you'll pay via property taxes for it.


And that’s the way it should be done! The province has no need to implement a garbage recycling program when the regions already have a garbage recycling program. If you want to collect electronics, then expand the existing programs – don’t create new ones. There’s only one tax payer, so what do I care if it’s the municipal government paying for it over the provincial one? I’m still paying, so let’s do it in the most efficient way possible.

Besides, nobody is going to get off their ass and take their old electronics to a drop off center. It’s retarded. People have better things to do. They do what I do, stick it in a garbage bag and forget about it. If the region took it in the blue-box, I’d put it there instead.

Zeeshan Hamid wrote:
Hudak just had to be "not Dalton". It should have been a walk in the park. But he's saying things that trouble me. He's making populist promises when he doesn't need to.


I hear you on that one. But I prefer Hudaks populism over Daltons.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 26, 2011 10:10 am 
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Bremer, I think you need to read up on Stewardship Ontario and their part in the Blue Box recycling program.

http://www.stewardshipontario.ca/

I don't agree with selling off the LCBO. Change the regulations to make it more flexible sure, but why sell off an entity that is a big revenue generator to the tune of 1.2B especially when you've got a budget to balance? Reform the various areas of government, make it smaller and more efficient. Sell off static assets . Consolidate operations to minimize any rented office space that sort of thing. What about privatizing or partially privatizing Ontario Place and/or the Ontario Science Center and Science Nord?


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 26, 2011 10:27 am 
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prickly_pete wrote:
freemantrailfamily wrote:
Bremer, I think you need to read up on Stewardship Ontario and their part in the Blue Box recycling program.

http://www.stewardshipontario.ca/

I don't agree with selling off the LCBO. Change the regulations to make it more flexible sure, but why sell off an entity that is a big revenue generator to the tune of 1.2B especially when you've got a budget to balance? Reform the various areas of government, make it smaller and more efficient. Sell off static assets . Consolidate operations to minimize any rented office space that sort of thing. What about privatizing or partially privatizing Ontario Place and/or the Ontario Science Center and Science Nord?



Because it's a PITA to have to find the local LCBO in order to buy some beer. In a city, not a big deal. Up north or in some otherwise remote small town, however, it sucks when the LC closed at 7:00. A Canadian guy should not have to plan his beer consumption. It's a right, not a privilege.


I get that Pete. That's why I said change the LCBO regulations to make them more flexible for sales operations. You don't have to throw the baby out with the bathwater to get what you want.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 26, 2011 11:25 am 
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freemantrailfamily wrote:
I don't agree with selling off the LCBO. Change the regulations to make it more flexible sure, but why sell off an entity that is a big revenue generator to the tune of 1.2B especially when you've got a budget to balance? Reform the various areas of government, make it smaller and more efficient. Sell off static assets . Consolidate operations to minimize any rented office space that sort of thing. What about privatizing or partially privatizing Ontario Place and/or the Ontario Science Center and Science Nord?


The LCBO does NOT generate money for the province!!!

The LCBO reports alcohol taxes as revenue. This is a fraud. If the LCBO were sold tomorrow, the government would still collect 1.2B in alcohol taxes! Taxes are taxes, not revenue. It’s not like they wouldn’t tax alcohol because some other company is selling it.

It pisses me off so much every time I hear the media repeat such mis-information.

In fact, if you removed alcohol taxes from the LCBO’s profit reports, they LOSE 4 million a year. This is because they run these beautiful stores in small markets that can’t justify such large stores. And it’s also because they grossly overpay their staff.

The government has no place operating a business that a private entity could do better.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 26, 2011 11:28 am 
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prickly_pete wrote:
freemantrailfamily wrote:
prickly_pete wrote:
freemantrailfamily wrote:
Bremer, I think you need to read up on Stewardship Ontario and their part in the Blue Box recycling program.

http://www.stewardshipontario.ca/

I don't agree with selling off the LCBO. Change the regulations to make it more flexible sure, but why sell off an entity that is a big revenue generator to the tune of 1.2B especially when you've got a budget to balance? Reform the various areas of government, make it smaller and more efficient. Sell off static assets . Consolidate operations to minimize any rented office space that sort of thing. What about privatizing or partially privatizing Ontario Place and/or the Ontario Science Center and Science Nord?



Because it's a PITA to have to find the local LCBO in order to buy some beer. In a city, not a big deal. Up north or in some otherwise remote small town, however, it sucks when the LC closed at 7:00. A Canadian guy should not have to plan his beer consumption. It's a right, not a privilege.


I get that Pete. That's why I said change the LCBO regulations to make them more flexible for sales operations. You don't have to throw the baby out with the bathwater to get what you want.


If they are going to have these LCBO and Beer stores open for longer hours, they will need more staff. This will translate in to paying even more for booze.

No reason why you can't sell beer and wine at local convenience shops or gas stations. The LCBO would still make a killing on spirits and a greater selection of wine and craft beers. The Beer Store would still sell 300 different brands, making them the best place to go to, if it's open.

Everyone would still prefer the LCBO and Beer Store, but would use alternative methods "in a pinch". There is no reason to have a monopoly on liquor sales in this province. It's ridiculous.


Yes, I agree completely with the beer sales. Again, you don't have to privatize LCBO to accomplish that. I wasn't thinking about extending beer store hours. The beer store concept is something that's foreign to me. It's not an LCBO entity anyways - it's owned by the big brewers. Change the regulations governing retail sales to allow a wider distribution.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 26, 2011 12:15 pm 
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bremer wrote:
freemantrailfamily wrote:
I don't agree with selling off the LCBO. Change the regulations to make it more flexible sure, but why sell off an entity that is a big revenue generator to the tune of 1.2B especially when you've got a budget to balance? Reform the various areas of government, make it smaller and more efficient. Sell off static assets . Consolidate operations to minimize any rented office space that sort of thing. What about privatizing or partially privatizing Ontario Place and/or the Ontario Science Center and Science Nord?


The LCBO does NOT generate money for the province!!!

The LCBO reports alcohol taxes as revenue. This is a fraud. If the LCBO were sold tomorrow, the government would still collect 1.2B in alcohol taxes! Taxes are taxes, not revenue. It’s not like they wouldn’t tax alcohol because some other company is selling it.

It pisses me off so much every time I hear the media repeat such mis-information.

In fact, if you removed alcohol taxes from the LCBO’s profit reports, they LOSE 4 million a year. This is because they run these beautiful stores in small markets that can’t justify such large stores. And it’s also because they grossly overpay their staff.

The government has no place operating a business that a private entity could do better.

Ah, interesting. Didn't know that. Food for thought :) . By and large I agree with you - government should be in the business of governing and leave business operations to the private sector. I'd need to do more research on the LCBO. How would privatizing impact the local wine industry?


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 26, 2011 1:19 pm 
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Zeeshan Hamid wrote:
He's going to pull a Harris and transfer cost to municipalities. Right now there's a few hundred $ difference between what you pay in property taxes in Ontario and what you'd pay in other provinces, related directly to cost of provincial programs that municipalities are forced to provide. That's not a cost reduction, that's a cost transfer from a more efficient form of taxation to a less efficient form.


Is that a campaign pledge, or a suspicion of yours?

I’m with you on the absurdity of a lot of the Harris downloading. Municipalities should have no part in funding the social safety net. I would not be a supporter of this under any government.

Zeeshan Hamid wrote:
bremer wrote:
People get way too hung up on the efficiency of the tax. While it’s true, the GST is preferable to an income tax, it’s still a tax, and less of any tax is a good thing.

It matters A LOT. You're missing the point. The gap created by GST cut is being filled by income taxes. You had the option of reducing income taxes by $12 billion / yr or GST by $12 billion / yr. One cut benefits you economically by actually growing the economy and increasing revenue, so you can cut even more in the future. The other does nothing. That matters. Water under the bridge but efficiency of tax matters a great deal. There's a proven corelation between people's behaviour and taxes. You want to have taxes that minimizes the harm done to the economy.


I understand, but the people spoke loud and clear. They preferred a GST cut. We had the option for the former, and rejected it. While a 2% GST cut is a worse option than a 2% income tax cut, it’s better than no cut at all. You cannot say that the GST doesn’t acts as a drag on the economy in any way.

Zeeshan Hamid wrote:
And most efficient way is province. You only have two real options :-
1. When you buy something with a hazardous waste (say a car battery), you pay for what it'd cost to trash it.
2. You do not pay for the cost of trash it. Instead, all property tax payers pay for it

Only the province can legislate (1).

1. is the market-driven approach where true environmental cost is taken into account. 2. is a socialist approach that actually penalizes people for good behaviour. I have 7 computers in the house (dont ask) and 4 LCDs. I am a bit of a gadget junkie when it comes to small gadgets. Under 2), I pay the same as my mom whose only electronic is an old clamshell cellphone. That's just silly. Hudak is taking us to option-2 because it's a populist option whereas (1) makes more sense.


I’m rarely a fan of the socialist approach, but when it comes to garbage I am. If we had to pay for every pound of garbage we produced, and the full cost of each item we recycled two things would happen:

1) A significant proportion of people would reduce their consumption of items which produce waste.
2) A significant proportion of people would try to avoid the fees and dump their garbage in fields and streets.

Perhaps it would be worth going this route, and eating the cost of cleaning up after the dumpers. I dunno. But right now, we have a socialist system, and it works reasonably well (outside of Toronto at least!). You’ll rarely hear me say that!

Zeeshan Hamid wrote:
The problem is that who pays for the handling, the person who bought those electronics or all taxpayers. It should be the person who bought those electronics and the only right way is to add it to the purchase price so you're paying for the garbage you create. Question at hand isn't the best way of handling disposal, rather it's the cost of handling the disposal. I do agree that truly harmful things (batteries, prescription meds etc) should go out with curbside pickup. But who pays for that, the person who bought those items or all property taxpayers?

In general, user-fees that create true market pricing is better than a "pay through your tax and then use it for free" approach. It's baffling that Liberals and NDP are prefering user fees but a conservative wants a tax-and-spend approach. It's a strange reversal or roles.


This user fee program, as implemented, is a farce. I’m with you on the idea of it, but in practice it fails. You can’t collect these fees at the point of purchase. It has to be the point of disposal. That’s when you become the user in this instance (the service being used is disposal, not the item itself). The government is trying to bring in user pay without the downsides of people trying to avoid the fees (illegal dumping). You pay upfront for disposal. If you dispose of the item, great it’s paid for already. If you don’t (or dispose of it incorrectly in the trash), the government keeps the money, or you subsidize those who do dispose. It sounds great on paper.

The problem is what do you charge? A printer costs more to dispose than a paint can. A light bulb less than a battery. Everything is different. Now you need a building full of people that is dedicated to calculating these costs, for everything on sale in the entire province (!!!). Then, you burden retailers with collecting those fees, which you are changing constantly. So now they face added costs to doing business so they can stay in sync with your latest cost projections. Then you need to educate the consumer as to why their bills contain all these added fees, and justify them all (eg, why is a CFC bulb 1.00, while a LED is $0.50?).

Imagine if we extended this model to ALL garbage. A banana costs $0.01 to compost, a cardboard box $0.50. A chair in the trash? - $5.00. New bed? $25.00. Plastic bags – ummm $0.001. Oh, and a metal can turns a profit, so let’s credit people $0.50 for those. Oops, but this month, we recalculated and a chair is now $6.00, but a bed is only $20.00. Everyone following?

It’s way too complex, expensive, and utterly confusing. Fail.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 26, 2011 2:38 pm 
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Scotian Lotion wrote:
I have a question.


Will this hospital expansion nonsense do anything for our property values?

If not, why the f**K does everyone (specifically on this forum) give a s**t about the hospital so much? As far as I can tell, 90% of the people on here are in their 30's... maybe very early 40's.


Are you all sick or something? Do your kids have rabies? Who is going to the hospital? I don't think I've ever gone unless I hear a bone snap under my skin. Of those times I have gone, all I see around emerg are paranoid parents who think their kids runny nose is the onslaught of ebola, senior citizens who are already in a stage 10 coma or some fat homeless people looking for something to do.

We build this technological monstrosity and then what? If you get mangled in a fiery car accident you're still getting airlifted to Sunnybrook, Hamilton General or London anyways.
I mean is this hospital strictly a big Emergency hospital or does it bring anything substantial to the table? Cancer center? Burn unit?

In my ignorance, the only people I can see dying (no pun intended) for a grand hospital are the people who just got off the boat and have never seen the inside of a hospital before. Will a new hospital let them test out their new OHIP card more efficiently?

I'm just curious... who's going to the hospital?

What's wrong with the one we have?
Other than the fact that I have no idea where it's located.



You've hit on something there.

Hospitals are some of the most depressing places on earth....full of piss, sh*t, snot, puke, misery, disease, despair and death.

And now it's going to be 3 times bigger. Our home prices will plummet.

Down with the hospital expansion I say.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 26, 2011 4:22 pm 
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Here are the details of the hospital expansion.

http://www.mdhf.ca/images/stories/PDF/P ... _FINAL.pdf

MILTON DISTRICT HOSPITAL EXPANSION

PROJECT HIGHLIGHTS

The expansion at the hospital will include 320,000 sq.ft. of new construction and 3,700 sq.ft. of renovations to existing space. At a current size of approximately 125,000 sq.ft., this expansion will more than double the size of the hospital.

Clinical departments in the new space will include:

Emergency
Diagnostic Imaging
Maternal Childcare
Medical/Surgical Inpatient Units
Intensive Care Unit
Surgical Department
Clinical Support departments in the new space will include:

Biomedical Engineering
Medical Device Reprocessing
Materials Management
Information Systems
Clinical Information Systems
Facilities Maintenance

NEW CONSTRUCTION

Emergency Department

Entirely new space will be sized to accommodate 45,500 visits per year. The current department has capacity to handle approximately 30,000 visits. The new space will more than triple the size of the current department.

Diagnostic Imaging

The plan includes the addition of a Magnetic Resonance Imaging (MRI) machine and Nuclear Medicine Services. The expansion will more than triple the size of the hospital’s Diagnostic Imaging Department.

Maternal Childcare

The new department will have increased capacity from eight to 17 post‐partum beds and associated birthing facilities. The new space will include a dedicated C‐section suite. Today, C‐sections are performed in the hospital’s Surgical Department.

Medical/Surgical Inpatient Units

New space will accommodate two, 36‐bed units with capacity for 72 patients. Eighty percent single patient rooms will enhance infection prevention and control and provide increased patient privacy and comfort. The expanded units will more than double capacity in the department.

Intensive Care Unit

The ICU will see an increase in capacity from six beds to 10 beds. The new, appropriately sized, unit will consist of modern facilities to support contemporary practices.

Surgical Department

Expanded operating suites and a Post‐Aneasthetic Care Unit will accommodate 8,400 surgical procedures annually. This represents an increase of 70% over the department’s current capacity.

CURRENT HOSPITAL

Existing facilities, including space made available from relocating services into the new construction, will be utilized to accommodate the needs of a number of clinical and clinical support departments including:

Complex Continuing Care
Medical Daycare and Cancer Clinic
Outpatient Mental Health Services
Outpatient Rehabilitation Services
Laboratory
Cardio‐Respiratory Services
Food Services
Environmental Services
Chronic Disease Management
Administration, Volunteer Services, Foundation

BENEFITS TO OUR COMMUNITY

State‐of‐the‐art hospital facilities developed in the new space providing additional capacity to meet the needs of our rapidly growing community,

New and enhanced programs and services including additional diagnostic capabilities and new ambulatory services such as chemotherapy treatment and mental health services,

Contemporary design to support enhanced infection prevention and control to reduce the spread of infection,

A healing environment focused on patient‐centred care including improved amenities to support family involvement,

Clearly marked traffic routes will separate emergency vehicles, hospital staff, public transit and the general public,

Simple internal and external way‐finding will allow for accessible and convenient movement,

Facilities built to current and anticipated design standards.

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Mike Cluett
Local/Regional Councillor
Wards 1,6,7 & 8

Website | Email mike@mikecluett.ca | Cell (647) 888-9032 | Facebook Page | | Twitter @Mike_Cluett


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 26, 2011 4:23 pm 
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Are hospitals ONLY for (not my words) OLD PEOPLE?

Batman wrote:
So what you're saying is...

Milton expands
Young people move in
Old people get upset
We close the Library (old people centre)
Old people get more upset and move away
More young people move in
Build giant hospital now that all the old people are gone


:?:

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Wards 1,6,7 & 8

Website | Email mike@mikecluett.ca | Cell (647) 888-9032 | Facebook Page | | Twitter @Mike_Cluett


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 27, 2011 12:08 am 
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I'm firmly in the cynical camp on this one. I think this was just an easy announcement to try and even up the race in this riding. It's a trust issue for me- and the Liberals seem to be operating on a vote buying kick; using hospitals to do it. Well it's not working with me based on their record on the last 8 years I don't trust them as far as I can throw them.

To those whose vote is changed by the funding announcement ask yourselves this: These Liberals have promised hospital expansions to numerous other ridings across the province. With the approximate $20 billion deficit how will the afford to keep the promise? I can't help but imagine the Liberals backing slowly away from some off these promised hospital expansions. They may drag them out- slow down the timing.

I don't know if Hudak will do any better- he'll probably be hampered by similar restrictions. But he's worth a try; I think he's too tentative to be exactly like Mike Harris and something tells me if he's elected October 6, that won't change.

I'll probably have more thoughts posted to my blog tomorrow.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 27, 2011 6:02 am 
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No that the momentary perma-grin from finally hearing news of the new hospital has warn of (not all that perma), what does it mean for funding? Will the Town (read us) be on the hook for a significant part of this expansion fee? What does this mean for the hospital levy (increase, remove?). Where does the money from this levy now go towards?

I'm also cautions about the political grandstanding and does someone pull the plug on this. How long till we see a shovel in the ground (they can still cancel, but its harder after contracts have been awarded).

The the others that aren't all that excited because they aren't old... hospitals are for the old & young (kids). If you are late 20s, 30s, you should think about them :) There are a lot of people that drive by MDH and go directly to credit valley because the Emerg isn't up to snuff -- there also no (this could have changed) on staff pediatrician. Many people have to go to other hospitals if they are anything but low-risk pregnancies. Of course they will still have to go to sick kids, or hamilton if its really serious, but that makes doesn't mean we should try staying a level 1 hospital forever!


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 27, 2011 7:49 am 
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Devious wrote:
No that the momentary perma-grin from finally hearing news of the new hospital has warn of (not all that perma), what does it mean for funding? Will the Town (read us) be on the hook for a significant part of this expansion fee? What does this mean for the hospital levy (increase, remove?). Where does the money from this levy now go towards?


Municipalities are obligated to put up 10% of the building costs, plus 100% of the equipment costs (beds, bedpans, diagnostic machines, etc.). We knew that going in, and that hasn't changed. That is what the hospital levy was for, so that won't change either.

As for those who are going on about how only old people use the hospital, I hesitate to respond because I can't tell if they are kidding. If not, I can only assume they don't have kids, or are of that breed of manly men who won't go to see a doctor until they break a limb or keel over from a heart attack.

In fact, I was just in hospital last week with an extraordinarily painful kidney infection. I was seen within an hour, had to wait quite a while for tests to come back, then was put on IV antibiotics for an hour. All told, I was in and out in four hours, which is better service than I ever got in Toronto with one of these.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 27, 2011 7:56 am 
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It seems to me that MDH emergency room is hit or miss. I hear stories of people in and out within a few hours and then there are stories like my son's who was critically ill as an infant and sent home three days in a row. Then Oakville saw him and admitted him to ICU on the spot. Not sure if the MDH nurses went to a different nursing school :shock: Hopefully this expansion brings in some new 'less cranky' front line staff.


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