HawthorneVillager.com

Again check your information Rick. It projected to have 20+ international events that would be between 4 and 6 days each. Which would include athletes and spectators. That doesn't include regular amature club competitions that will pull from the entire province, which I might ad is where the real money is since the majority are masters athletes.

I guess you still haven't made any calls or vists to London yet? You could have even called the hotel that is adjacent to the FCV and got a quick answer about the amount of out of towners/Americans and the distance they travel to ride in their building, that is small and not is great condition.

Hey, I'll even save you some work. Here is who you can call.

Tel: (519) 883-7849
Email: Rob.Good@ForestCityVelodrome.ca

Or even one of the Hotels
1156 Wellington Rd London, ON
519-685-9300

Due diligence is actually more then visiting the curling club or going to Tim Hortons.

Brutal. This scares the sh*t out of me.

Anyone else think the rate of growth in this town is absurd consdering our infrastructure clearly cannot keep up with it?

And we're more concerned about a f*cking velodrome...

EXACTLY If you simply ask citizens who know essentially nothing about the details of the project they will likely reject the idea since the odds are most do not cycle competitively and/or they would not understand the benefits. For example, if there are concerns regarding tourism, find out what the assumptions are in the business case and compare them to London to see if they are believable and viable.

Otherwise, the town should never do an analysis and just ask all of our Councillors what their gut feel is for every decision.

Hi Rick, Thanks for your input. Of course those in support of the Velodrome will maximize the benefits that this project will bring to Milton but they don't give a hoot if down the road we have a one time surcharge on our municipal taxes to pay for the lack of funding as they will probably have moved elsewhere. I'm sure that the funds earmarked for this project could probably be used in a more beneficial way to the community. I'm upset that those elitists make the rest of us think we're know nothing country bumpkins who are attempting to block to development.

Jan
1. I am not "maximizing" the benefits but I am not ignoring them either. All said benefits have been put forward by Councillors looking at this project in detail (see other Velodrome postings by Cluett, Hamid, etc.). Also, if by "maximizing" the benefits you mean exaggerating their impact, then said benefits should be criticized by the Councillors and the business plan impact adjusted downward.
2. I do not want a one-time surcharge down the road. The business plan should adequately deal with those operating risks. Linking the group that is for the Velodrome as being the people most likely to move out of Milton is illogical.
3. You are sure the earmarked funds can be better used? They actually have to be used for some sort of recreational facility which is included in the Velodrome. So it is either a standalone $4 million facility or the $4 million facility is combined in the $40 million Velodrome with the difference funded by private donations and higher levels of government.
4. I had a grilled black forest ham sandwich on marble rye with apple butter, romaine and the king of cheeses, brie, for lunch. That is about as elitist as I am. My suggestion that decisions are better made by the people with all the facts is not elitist. I likely know more about this topic than most Miltonian's only because I read this forum (anyone who has read the Velodrome threads knows at least as much as I do, and we are all in the minority). The Councillor's know even more, as they should, because that is their job and that is why we elect them. For all I know, you may be the smartest person in Milton to analyze the business proposal but if you do not read it then you can not provide a defensible reason to reject it (assuming the business case recommends proceeding with the project). As westender mentioned, their is more to due diligence then simply asking opinions. I want, no I expect, decisions to be based on facts and figures, not on gut instincts. If any of the facts in the business case appear unrealistic then they should be challenged by our Councillors.
5. Are you simply trying to block development? The town MJD03 lived in is long gone.

I am not so dumb to realize that "progress" is inevitable and certainly am not implying that Milton should not be moving towards what it will eventually become(or is), which is a fine community to live in, raise kids, hopefully create friendships and a host of other qualities that one would hope for in a well balanced neighbourhood. If the object is to attract projects that will create employment, guarantee a university campus, attract new hotels etc that's fine too. The business models that are presented to council, in my mind, should be ironclad upon those private entities financially supporting the project that they will indeed pay up (or shut up now) when the time comes to foot the bill.

I can't argue with that. It now appears your main concern is ensuring private funding is guaranteed and not just lip service. To me that is a more acceptable demand than don't proceed because I have (vague) concerns, or I'll never use the facility, etc.

Good heavens, are you seriously just now getting that the concern is about the money?

Clue: the private funding is NOT guaranteed. It IS just lip service. And taxpayers will be left holding the bag if (when) the funding doesn't live up to said lip service.

If TD Bank and Mattamy and/or others want to put financial guarantees behind their pledges and their pledges to help raise more pledges, then by all means let's hear it. Think they're willing to put money in escrow? How about just signing a contract? And what about the 2.5M extra that we'll have to pay if the province doesn't confirm Laurier; let's get that covered too. Combine it with enough capital to fund 40 years of operating costs and we're sold!

If you are asking me, of course I understand the concern about money. There are actually several concern's about money. Some are risk of securing private funding, risk of lost funding if Laurier campus is not approved by Province, risk of higher operating costs, etc. My comment was an effort to understand and clarify Jan's concern which was much more clear than her first comment. You point out some excellent suggestions to mitigate private funding risk.

That being said, a simple "concern about money" is not in and of itself a valid reason to kill a project. Every project could be killed if that was the only litmus test. The risk (concern) needs to be specified, quantifiable and have a probability assigned that is defensible. Then and only then can a proper decision can be made. As a hypothetical example, I am concerned about the naming rights and the likelihood of Mattamy defaulting on their $2M pledge. Based on Mattamy's financial health, record of payments for previous naming rights and the percentage they actually funded based on what they originally said leads us to believe that there is a negligible risk (1%) of default on this funding.

For transportation it would be my expectation that there would be public transit during the pan am games to help people reach the different games in the gta. In Milton's case I'd think GO transit to get to Milton with perhaps Milton transit to get to the velodrome. That's just my thoughts. Transportation logistics will be worked our but many people going to the games won't have cars.

Transportation to the event locations would be the responsibility of the Pan Am games organizing committee, not the town. Although I'm sure working with the town RE: local transit will be one of the things they look at. If they saw a problem with getting people to an from milton for the cycling events, I'm sure Milton would not have been in the running for the velodrome at all.

The GO lakeshore line will likely be a main route for the games anyway. Bus up from there would probably be the way to go. Regardless, there will be more transportation in place than the regular routes during the games. Not a key issue in the town's decision at any rate.

There was also a point similar to this made on the Jan 10th public meeting at the MSC. They also eluded that there would be all day GO train service in place.

Just a reminder that there will be an information session hosted by yours truly and Colin Best this Thursday January 26 at Milton Sports Centre Room 3 7pm-9pm.

We will have copies of the business plan available (also should be available online www.milton.ca at 3pm ) maps of where everything is proposed to go and we can answer any questions you might have. Please RSVP mike@mikecluett.ca and go to my website www.mikecluett.ca for more details, FAQ's and post comments. The final decision will go to Milton council on January 30th so come out, be informed and let us know what you think.

_________________
Mike Cluett
Local/Regional Councillor
Wards 1,6,7 & 8

Website | Email mike@mikecluett.ca | Cell (647) 888-9032 | Facebook Page | | Twitter @Mike_Cluett

[quote="Rick Di Lorenzo"][quote="KEYBORED"]
I have two questions for Mike Cluett.
2. How would people access the velodrome i.e would tremaine have access to the 401.
Thanks[/quote]For transportation it would be my expectation that there would be public transit during the pan am games to help people reach the different games in the gta. In Milton's case I'd think GO transit to get to Milton with perhaps Milton transit to get to the velodrome. That's just my thoughts. Transportation logistics will be worked our but many people going to the games won't have cars.[/quote]

I believe the Town report states that it is their "anticipation" that Tremaine will be a major regional arterial road with access to 401 interchange, by 2015, or at least this is what they're telling the Pan Am folks. It's difficult to believe that in under 3 years, this will happen in time for the proposed 2015 Pan Am Games. Louis Saint Laurent Blvd. needs to be extended. The current site for the Velodrome isn't serviced, so the Regional has to get a Ministers Zoning Order since the site currently is not classed as urban. Just wondering what providing water and sewage facilities will cost? Will water rates go up to pay for this?

[quote="Mike_Cluett"]Just a reminder that there will be an information session hosted by yours truly and Colin Best this Thursday January 26 at Milton Sports Centre Room 3 7pm-9pm.

We will have copies of the business plan available (also should be available online http://www.milton.ca at 3pm ) maps of where everything is proposed to go and we can answer any questions you might have. Please RSVP mike@mikecluett.ca and go to my website http://www.mikecluett.ca for more details, FAQ's and post comments. The final decision will go to Milton council on January 30th so come out, be informed and let us know what you think.[/quote]

It's 9:11 p.m. and I checked on the Milton site and there isn't a new posting of a new business plan. What I believe is posted are the two older plans. It would be nice to read the new plan before the meeting.