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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 2:13 pm 
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miltonLeo wrote:
munchito wrote:
avonannie wrote:
God for this amount of money we could have had a decent hospital

quick! edit this out before someone pipes in and says 'You can't use the money allocated for this on the hospital"

Remove it and I'll edit mine too...hurry!


Tell that to this same town council who voted in a last-minute hospital tax grab levy, payable by us through property tax increases.



Thanks for reminding me about the "Hospital Tax Grab Levy".


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 2:15 pm 
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bremer wrote:
Rick Malboeuf wrote:
Sandeep wrote:
Imagine if this thing doesn't go over budget and actually generates a profit... Thatd be something for all the doomsayers.

First of all this thing is already projected to go over budget, and the best case scenario of the 5 year business plan shows this velodrome will run on a deficit , and that business plan used the $17 million dollar figure ( towns portion for now ) for the capital reserve fund ( some voodoo economics being played here) . The Capital reserve contribution should be based on the actual cost of the project which is now forecast to be $ 56 million.

Rick Malboeuf
Councillor Ward 4


Rick, I don’t think you understood what Sandeep was trying to say. He said “Imagine” if this generated a profit. Like we tell our kids to imagine santa clause bringing presents.

For example; Imagine, if after this is built and the town goes broke trying to cover the maintenance, the region buys it as a landfill, saving the taxpayers millions and eliminating the new bag tax.

It’s never going to happen, but just imagine how nice that would be.


The "town would never go broke", they powers that be will just raise our taxes.

And they will blame it on the Federal and Provincial Government. You really think it matters to them??

"Spend, spend, spend" and we, "pay, pay pay".. easy equation.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 10:34 am 
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darnold wrote:
I try to get out to the London track one day each weekend over the winter season. If anyone here would like to visit the London velodrome in person you are welcome to join me and see for yourself. Send me a PM if you are interested.

If you want to ride on the track in London you can take the "Track 1" coarse that cost $20 plus $10 for the bike rental. This includes 2 1/2 hours of training and track riding. They used to offer this coarse once a week but the current demand is so high that they are now offering it three times a week.

You can get all of the information here: http://www.forestcityvelodrome.ca

-dan


So let me get this straight, there is already a Velodrome in London?!?!?

Tell me again why we want to be part of the epic Pan Am failure and why we want to build the Velodromes of all Velodromes when near by in London there is already an adequate facility. I say near by as I am going by what the Velodrome advocates are telling me. If cyclists are willing to travel to Milton from all around Canada to use our Velodrome I'd say Milton to London is not all that far.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 10:36 am 
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Pretty sure the London one isn't the correct size for international competition - it's too small, IIRC.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 10:41 am 
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eci wrote:
Pretty sure the London one isn't the correct size for international competition - it's too small, IIRC.


Does anyone in Milton require a Velodrome suitable for international competition? Why does that matter to a recreational cyclist? How does an international sized Velodrome improve the lives of Milton residents?


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 10:47 am 
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Forest City Velodrome in London is 138 meter track that was designed to fit in an old hockey arena (Ice House, just south of the 401 off Wellington for anyone familiar with London). An international standard track required for pan-am and international competition is 250 meters. Frankly, if anyone stands to really loose from the Milton Velodrome it's Forest City as it's an entirely volunteer run, not for profit facility that's privately financed. It's probable Milton will siphon off a good chunk of their business.

http://www.forestcityvelodrome.ca/track_history.php


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 10:51 am 
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VCola wrote:
eci wrote:
Pretty sure the London one isn't the correct size for international competition - it's too small, IIRC.


Does anyone in Milton require a Velodrome suitable for international competition? Why does that matter to a recreational cyclist? How does an international sized Velodrome improve the lives of Milton residents?


Hey, I'm against the stupid thing, just pointing out why the Pan Am games couldn't use the London one. The London one isn't the right size for Pan Am.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 10:52 am 
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cactus_jack wrote:
VCola wrote:
darnold wrote:
I try to get out to the London track one day each weekend over the winter season. If anyone here would like to visit the London velodrome in person you are welcome to join me and see for yourself. Send me a PM if you are interested.

If you want to ride on the track in London you can take the "Track 1" coarse that cost $20 plus $10 for the bike rental. This includes 2 1/2 hours of training and track riding. They used to offer this coarse once a week but the current demand is so high that they are now offering it three times a week.

You can get all of the information here: http://www.forestcityvelodrome.ca

-dan


So let me get this straight, there is already a Velodrome in London?!?!?

Tell me again why we want to be part of the epic Pan Am failure and why we want to build the Velodromes of all Velodromes when near by in London there is already an adequate facility. I say near by as I am going by what the Velodrome advocates are telling me. If cyclists are willing to travel to Milton from all around Canada to use our Velodrome I'd say Milton to London is not all that far.


Actually the size of the track in Milton will be bigger - it's a much better facility than what currently exists in London. The one in Milton will be comparable to the one in Los Angeles, which is where the current Canadian team trains. I still hate it though.


Hey Cactus

I realize our Velodrome will be much better but in the end who really cares other than a small intrest group. My whole arguement has been that the Velodrome caters to the minority, not the masses. If Milton were well established and its infrastructure was sufficient for the growth we've experienced, then ya, go nuts with pet projects like this but we're not there quite yet.

I could care less how great its going to be. Then to find out there is a Velodrome in London that is more than sufficient for the average, hobbyist cyclist.....it just makes me wonder why.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 10:56 am 
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When I first agrued that it was a mistake to be a part of the Pan Am games advocates tried to sell the great benefits of the Velodrome. Now that I am picking a part the Velodrome advocates try to tell me we need them for the Pan Am games.

Why do we need the Pan Am games or a Velodrome to accomodate the games?

Big mistake!


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 12:07 pm 
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cactus_jack wrote:
VCola wrote:
When I first agrued that it was a mistake to be a part of the Pan Am games advocates tried to sell the great benefits of the Velodrome. Now that I am picking a part the Velodrome advocates try to tell me we need them for the Pan Am games.

Why do we need the Pan Am games or a Velodrome to accomodate the games?

Big mistake!


I think the velodrome is stupid and I don't want it either.

The bottom line is this. The Pan-AM games are coming. The federal government is spending a lot of money. They were building a velodrome somewhere, and were committed to paying a huge chunk of change for it. Milton's councilors felt that this was a good opportunity to get something relatively cheap that would:
a) Make Milton more popular for people other than just a place to sleep at night.
b) Get something that could potentially make money that the feds pay a large part for.
c) Please Peter Gilgan.


Where do you sleep in Milton if you come here for the Velodrome?


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 12:17 pm 
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cactus_jack wrote:
How do you get a hotel built somewhere?

Hotels don't want to build a new location where there is no reason for people to go.
You're suggesting people don't want to go anywhere that hotels don't exist.

I know that when I play in hockey tournaments, there are some arenas that are a good 10-20 minute drive from our hotel. This isn't a big deal. You don't need to sleep next door to something.

Getting things to draw people to work and play in Milton is the first step in getting some hotels built. The Boyne business village project or whatever it's called is supposed to help with this as well - thing is, companies don't want to put their big offices where there aren't any hotels...

It's all very complicated. We're not supposed to ask questions. In the end it all boils down to having a full transit system.
What's wrong with you...you're making sense.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 12:22 pm 
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cactus_jack wrote:
How do you get a hotel built somewhere?

Hotels don't want to build a new location where there is no reason for people to go.
You're suggesting people don't want to go anywhere that hotels don't exist.

I know that when I play in hockey tournaments, there are some arenas that are a good 10-20 minute drive from our hotel. This isn't a big deal. You don't need to sleep next door to something.

Getting things to draw people to work and play in Milton is the first step in getting some hotels built. The Boyne business village project or whatever it's called is supposed to help with this as well - thing is, companies don't want to put their big offices where there aren't any hotels...

It's all very complicated. We're not supposed to ask questions. In the end it all boils down to having a full transit system.


I believe most municipalities offer big subsidies to get businesses to set up shop.

I believe there would already be a market for a hotel in Milton based on family coming to visit the newborns alone. Heck, with the new no-overnight-parking-whatsoever bylaw, where is someone to go?

However, your point "10-20 minute drive", makes the hotels currently along Derry in Mississauga the perfect habitat for all of the avid Cyclists coming in from Iqaluit, Florida, etc.

The only problem with that is these people will be sleeping and dining in Mississauga, which does nothing for Milton.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 12:36 pm 
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cactus_jack wrote:
There is no market for hotels in Milton. There is no reason to come here other than our private buses.

How weird would it be for a family member to visit your newborn and then go stay at a hotel at night?

Once sh*t gets built up around here, hotels will come. Milton is still in early Monopoly mode, where they're still getting their act together on N. Carolina, Pennsylvania, and Pacific Avenues. Once they finish developing, they can start putting up those hotels and get to making some serious $$$$$.


Milton will never be a city until a Costco sets up shop. The big warehouse space that's been vacant for the past 3 years on the 401/Steeles is perfect, but can't even attract easy money for Costco.

Staying at a hotel to avoid family/inlaws is pretty normal for me.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 9:46 pm 
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VCola wrote:
I realize our Velodrome will be much better but in the end who really cares other than a small intrest group. My whole arguement has been that the Velodrome caters to the minority, not the masses. If Milton were well established and its infrastructure was sufficient for the growth we've experienced, then ya, go nuts with pet projects like this but we're not there quite yet.

I could care less how great its going to be. Then to find out there is a Velodrome in London that is more than sufficient for the average, hobbyist cyclist.....it just makes me wonder why.


If that is your whole argument, then please define a minority. You and so many people are out of touch with reality on participation rates for ALL sports or activities because EVERY ONE of them appeals to a minority. The most popular sport, golf, appeals to about 20 to 21% of the population, far below a majority of 51%. Hockey and all other sports are well below that. So by your logic no recreational facility should ever be built with public money. Just sayin'.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 8:35 am 
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KGC wrote:
If that is your whole argument, then please define a minority.


minority (plural minorities)
1.The state of being a minor; youth, the period of a person's life prior to reaching adulthood. [from 15th c.]  [quotations ▼]

2.Any subgroup that does not form a numerical majority. [from 18th c.] Most people agreed, but a sizable minority were upset by the decision.
3.(politics, used attributively of a party, government, etc.) Empowered by or representing a minority (usually a plurality) of votes cast, legislative seats, etc., rather than an outright majority thereof.
4.(US) A member of an ethnic minority. [from 20th c.] The company claims it has hired several minorities since the complaint was lodged.

Quote:
You and so many people are out of touch with reality on participation rates for ALL sports or activities because EVERY ONE of them appeals to a minority. The most popular sport, golf, appeals to about 20 to 21% of the population, far below a majority of 51%. Hockey and all other sports are well below that.


Your point being what?

Quote:
So by your logic no recreational facility should ever be built with public money. Just sayin'.


Read what I have written throughout the thread and you'll find your assumption is wrong.


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